When Genocide is Permissible

[Gary Childress]

Seeing as how God kills ALL people, I suppose that technically yes, God does approve of and even commit genocide. He doesn't kill "groups of" people--it's pretty much all of them. However, He is the one who created all life in the first place, so if anyone has any right to take life, it is Him.

Just out of curiosity, how did God create all life?

 

[timtofly]

There are a lot of people who boycott the idea that God still favors Israel, so you may have a point. I still view genocide as the removal of a people group from existence. Condemning it after the point is useless. In the current ME crisis, it seems to me that both sides are adamant that they intend to accomplish genocide as to get rid of the perceived evil threat they are to each other.

 

[Leonel]

Just out of curiosity, how did God create all life?

He genocided the people who already lived on the planet Earth?

 

[timtofly]

Do you have proof of that?

 

[Domen]

Just out of curiosity, how did God create all life?

Programmed a quantum computer to start a sequence of events resulting in life:


Link to video.

 

[useless]

Translation:

"Victory is possible
Cut off the power to Gaza.
No power, fuel or food.
Yes it's moral."

I wonder what that sounds like? Hmm....

 

[hangman]

Back on topic; according to this, the Knesset's deputy speaker had this to say:

With God’s Help

Attention

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

Mr. Prime Minister,

We have just heard that Hamas has used the ceasefire to abduct an officer. It turns out that this operation is not about to be over any too soon.

The failures of this operation were inherent to it from the outset, because:

a) It has no proper and clear goal;
b) there is no appropriate moral framework to support our soldiers.

What is required now is that we internalize the fact that Oslo is finished, that this is our country – our country exclusively, including Gaza.

There are no two states, and there are no two peoples. There is only one state for one people.

Having internalized this, what is needed is a deep and thorough strategic review, in terms of the definition of the enemy, of the operational tasks, of the strategic goals, and of course, of appropriate necessary war ethics.

(1) Defining the enemy:

The strategic enemy is extremist Arab Islam in all its varieties, from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to annihilate Israel in its entirety. The immediate enemy is Hamas. (Not the tunnels, not the rockets, but Hamas.)

(2) Defining the tasks

Conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters.

(3) Defining the strategic goal:

To turn Gaza into Jaffa, a flourishing Israeli city with a minimum number of hostile civilians.

(4) Defining war ethics: “Woe to the evildoer, and woe to his neighbor”

In light of these four points, Israel must do the following:

a) The IDF [Israeli army] shall designate certain open areas on the Sinai border, adjacent to the sea, in which the civilian population will be concentrated, far from the built-up areas that are used for launches and tunneling. In these areas, tent encampments will be established, until relevant emigration destinations are determined.

The supply of electricity and water to the formerly populated areas will be disconnected.

b) The formerly populated areas will be shelled with maximum fire power. The entire civilian and military infrastructure of Hamas, its means of communication and of logistics, will be destroyed entirely, down to their foundations.

c) The IDF will divide the Gaza Strip laterally and crosswise, significantly expand the corridors, occupy commanding positions, and exterminate nests of resistance, in the event that any should remain.

d) Israel will start searching for emigration destinations and quotas for the refugees from Gaza. Those who wish to emigrate will be given a generous economic support package, and will arrive at the receiving countries with considerable economic capabilities.

e) Those who insist on staying, if they can be proven to have no affiliation with Hamas, will be required to publicly sign a declaration of loyalty to Israel, and receive a blue ID card similar to that of the Arabs of East Jerusalem.

f) When the fighting will end, Israeli law will be extended to cover the entire Gaza Strip, the people evicted from the Gush Katif will be invited to return to their settlements, and the city of Gaza and its suburbs will be rebuilt as true Israeli touristic and commercial cities.

Mr. Prime Minister,

This is the a fateful hour of decision in the history of the State of Israel.

All metastases of our enemy, from Iran and Hizballah through ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood, are rubbing their hands gleefully and preparing themselves for the next round.

I am warning that any outcome that is less than what I defined here means encouraging the continued offensive against Israel. Only when Hizballah will understand how we have dealt with Hamas in the south, it will refrain from launching its 100,000 missiles from the north.

I call on you to adopt the strategy proposed here.

I have no doubt that the entire Israeli people will stand to your right with its overwhelming majority, like myself – if only you will adopt it.

With high regards, respectfully,

Moshe Feiglin

Can someone who speaks Hebrew confirm the translation, or offer your own? I'm aware that Electronic Intifada is susceptible to biases...

Original Hebrew:

Spoiler :

ב"ה
לכבוד
ראש הממשלה בנימין נתניהו
אדוני ראש הממשלה
זה עתה נודע כי החמאס ניצל את הפסקת האש בכדי לחטוף קצין. מסתבר שהמבצע הזה לא עומד להיגמר כל כך מהר.
הכשלים במבצע היו טמונים בו מתחילתו כי:
א – אין לו מטרה נכונה וברורה.
ב – אין מעטפת מוסרית ראויה התומכת בחיילינו.
מה שנדרש כעת הוא להפנים שאוסלו נגמר, שזו ארצנו – רק ארצנו, כולל עזה!
אין שתי מדינות ואין שני עמים - יש רק מדינה אחת לעם אחד.
בעקבות ההפנמה הזו נדרש שינוי אסטרטגי עמוק ויסודי – הן בהגדרת האויב, הן בהגדרת המשימה, הן בהגדרת היעד האסטרטגי וכמובן - בהגדרת מוסר הלחימה הנכון והנדרש.
1 – הגדרת האוייב
האויב האסטרטגי הוא האסלאם הערבי הקיצוני על כל גרורותיו מאיראן ועד עזה המבקש לחסל את ישראל כולה.
האויב בעין הוא החמאס.
(לא המנהרות, לא הרקטות – החמא&#1505
2 – הגדרת המשימה:
כיבוש הרצועה כולה וחיסול כל הכוחות הלוחמים ותומכיהם.
3 – הגדרת היעד האסטרטגי:
להפוך את עזה ליפו. עיר ישראלית פורחת עם מינימום אזרחים עוינים.
4 – הגדרת מוסר הלחימה:
"אוי לרשע ואוי לשכנו"

לאור ארבעת הנקודות הללו על ישראל לבצע מיד את הפעולות הבאות:
א - צה"ל יגדיר שטחים פתוחים על גבול סיני ובסמיכות לים בהם תתרכז האוכלוסייה האזרחית- הרחק מהשטח הבנוי ואזורי השיגור והמנהור. באזורים אלו יוקמו מחנות אוהלים עד לאיתור יעדי הגירה רלוונטיים.
אספקת החשמל והמים לאזורים שהיו מאוכלסים – תנותק.
ב – האזורים שהיו מאוכלסים יופגזו בכוח אש מקסימלי. כל מתקני החמאס האזרחיים והצבאיים, אמצעי הקשר והלוגיסטיקה – יחוסלו עד היסוד.
ג – צה"ל יבתר את הרצועה לאורכה ולרחבה, ירחיב מאוד את הצירים, ישתלט על אזורים שולטים וישמיד קיני ההתנגדות במידה וייוותרו כאלה.
ד – ישראל תחל באיתור מדינות ומכסות הגירה לפליטי עזה. המעוניינים להגר יזכו בחבילת סיוע כלכלית נדיבה ויגיעו לארצות הקולטות עם יכולת כלכלית משמעותית.
ה – מי שיתעקש להישאר ויוכח כי אין לו כל קשר לחמאס, יידרש לחתום באופן פומבי על הצהרת נאמנות לישראל ויקבל תעודת זהות כחולה בדומה לזו של ערביי מזרח ירושלים.
ו - עם שוך הקרבות יוחל החוק הישראלי בכל הרצועה, מגורשי גוש קטיף יוזמנו לשוב ליישוביהם והעיר עזה ובנותיה ייבנו כערי תיירות ומסחר ישראליות לכל דבר.
אדוני ראש הממשלה!
זוהי שעת הכרעה גורלית בימיה של מדינת ישראל.
כל גרורות האויב, מאיראן והחיזבאללה ועד דע"ש והאחים המוסלמים – חוככות כעת את ידיהן בהנאה ומכינות עצמן לסבב הבא.
אני מתריע שכל תוצאה שהיא פחות ממה שהוגדר כאן, משמעותה עידוד המשך האופנסיבה נגד ישראל. רק אם יבין החיזבאללא כיצד טופל החמס בדרום, ימנע מלשגר את 100,000 הטילים שלו - מצפון.
אני קורא לך לאמץ את האסטרטגיה המוצעת כאן.
אין לי כל ספק שכמוני, עם ישראל כולו יעמוד ברוב מוחץ לימינך – אם רק תאמצנה.

בכבוד ובהערכה רבה
משה פייגלין

And this rat has the nerve to talk about "defense"...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Back off topic, I haven't seen The Ninth Gate, but among books I highly recommend Job, a Comedy of Justice by Robert Heinlein. The main character happens to share a name with the famous biblical character so God gets onto the same path of torturing him for the edification of Satan. He eventually visits both heaven and hell, coming away with a clear preference...and the book is hysterically funny throughout.

 

[timtofly]

@ topic

I would say the sooner the better. If Hamas will not stop on their own, and I do not see Israel stopping it would be a genocide. Going this route stops the genocide, and creates a "gun free" zone. I doubt the distractors will see this as the correct route, but warmongers will be thwarted their drawn out war.

I would not base this entirely on the fact that there are 100,000 rockets about to go of in the North. It is hard to figure out why there was not a full on attack as apposed to attempting to wear down Israel in one front before going on to the next, or Hezbollah does not have any interest at all in doing to Israel what Hamas has done.

 

[Leonel]

Translation:

"Victory is possible
Cut off the power to Gaza.
No power, fuel or food.
Yes it's moral."

I wonder what that sounds like? Hmm....

It really sounds like Israel was like the kid who was abused by his father, Germany, and now Israel is taking out it's own scarred psyche on the Palestinians, whom I'm sure in another 100 years will be genociding someone else; the Kyrgyzstani's I guess.

Do you have proof of that?

Hey he has the reputation for it! Besides, I have faith that's what really happened.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

It really sounds like Israel was like the kid who was abused by his father, Germany, and now Israel is taking out it's own scarred psyche on the Palestinians, whom I'm sure in another 100 years will be genociding someone else; the Kyrgyzstani's I guess.

Yep history seems to kind of have fracked them in the head. The more I learn about Israel the more I am convinced of this. Though I guess their particular history could do it to the best. But what Israel now needs is to be shaken back to sobriety by the international community. Most of all the USA. Though it could really be someone with more moral cred..

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yep history seems to kind of have fracked them in the head. The more I learn about Israel the more I am convinced of this. Though I guess their particular history could do it to the best. But what Israel now needs is to be shaken back to sobriety by the international community. Most of all the USA. Though it could really be someone with more moral cred..

In the international community moral cred is irrelevant. The US need to be the ones to shake them because the US has the guns to do it. Mao was right.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

In the international community moral cred is irrelevant.

Do I have to fight this Machiavellian nonsense now in two threads? Dear god... What is it with you Americans?

Without a doubt international politics a heavily dictated by self-interest, but moral cred does matter. It for instance can make negotiations easier - or a lot harder.
There are still people involved. Not computer calculating an agreement.

edit: Sorry for being so brush. That seems to hit a spot of mine.

 

[Leonel]

Yep history seems to kind of have fracked them in the head. The more I learn about Israel the more I am convinced of this. Though I guess their particular history could do it to the best. But what Israel now needs is to be shaken back to sobriety by the international community. Most of all the USA. Though it could really be someone with more moral cred..

Yeah it seems like when people look at Israel they say "Jeez what a jerk!" and someone says "Didn't you hear? He was abused as a kid so that's why he's all violent and abusive." and people are like "Aww that's so sad!"

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Well, it is sad

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Do I have to fight this Machiavellian nonsense now in two threads? Dear god... What is it with you Americans?

Without a doubt international politics a heavily dictated by self-interest, but moral cred does matter. It for instance can make negotiations easier - or a lot harder.
There are still people involved. Not computer calculating an agreement.

I think (not sure) that I didn't make myself clear. I meant that the US needed to do the shaking because they are Israel's preferred arms supplier. The most morally upright nation on earth (dunno who that might be...Fiji?) can try to shake Israel as much as you want, but to be listened to by the Israelis is another story entirely.

FWIW I really really wish the USA had not squandered whatever 'moral cred' we used to have.

 

[timtofly]

Wellll it does seem to be the same ideology that destroyed the US's that is destroying the Israelis' and that can be interpreted any way you all see fit.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

@Timsup2nothin
No disagreement with that

and that can be interpreted any way you all see fit.

That caption should come with all your posts

 

[hangman]

Do I have to fight this Machiavellian nonsense now in two threads? Dear god... What is it with you Americans?

Without a doubt international politics a heavily dictated by self-interest, but moral cred does matter. It for instance can make negotiations easier - or a lot harder.
There are still people involved. Not computer calculating an agreement.

edit: Sorry for being so brush. That seems to hit a spot of mine.

We've been quite cynical about a variety of topics as of late. We pretty much expect the least moral possibility to be the thing that actually happens anymore.

Wellll it does seem to be the same ideology that destroyed the US's that is destroying the Israelis' and that can be interpreted any way you all see fit.

Eh, now everyone just hates our government, we haven't really had any diplomatic issues that changed the facts on the ground in a noticeable way, as far as I can tell...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Eh, now everyone just hates our government, we haven't really had any diplomatic issues that changed the facts on the ground in a noticeable way, as far as I can tell...

Did you miss the unilateral invasion of Iraq? Y'know, big country invades smaller country just because it can while the rest of the world says 'well, nothing we can do to stop them but now we know they're <........>'? Same thing the US throughout it's history has condemned in no uncertain terms whenever someone else did it? Is even known to stir up a military response and kick the aggressor's tail for them on occasion?

You missed that? Where were you?