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Where did I go wrong?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Krick19, Oct 8, 2008.

  1. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    419
    Blessed with a wonderful start and alright neighbors, I felt this was a wonderful game to learn Monarch. However, at 305 BC, I have only 6 cities, and a tech rate of 16 per turn. My power's puny, my cities are all at the unhappy cap. Where did I go wrong? If someone experienced on Monarch could play out from the initial save to about where I am, I'd appreciate it. I see all these Monarch players with a wonderful tech rate, and a large empire by this point, and I can't help but think I'm missing something.

    My empire:
    Spoiler :


    Saves below.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    What happened between 4000 BC and 305 BC? That information could be really helpful.

    As of now, I think you'll be seeing a lot of vague "build more cottages!" or "get a great person" comments by players in this thread. These comments, while helpful, will not help much unless it is designated at YOUR SPECIFIC GAME.
     
  3. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    419
    Basically, I attempted to peacefully rex, and block off my peninsula. I teched thru many of the worker techs, and tried to go for CoL to get court houses. Production seemed real high in my cities, so I finished a lot of basic infrastructure. I think my main flaw was not building enough cottages/running scientists.
     
  4. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,283
    Location:
    Canada
    The game is not lost by any means, but I looked at the save and saw:
    1) amazingly weak army - 1 chariot and 9 warriors in 305BC with cautious opponents? You're asking to be killed.
    2) Your cities do not need monuments.
    3) Pyramids? It's too late for that.
    4) Happiness problems. Trade with Pacal for wine.
    5) Do no build any more workers.. you have enough and they just cost you money. Build troops instead. Focus on spears more than usual since your neighbors are Mongols and Khmer so you may face HA's and elephants.
    6) Convert to Buddhism ASAP to prevent being dogpiled.
     
  5. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    419
    Alright thanks.

    1. Agreed. My army management skills need work.

    2. How should I pop borders without monuments?

    3. Sorry, forgot to mention, I was trying to get a bit of gold.

    4. Good idea, I need to learn to remember to check possible trades.

    5. Heh, I've been going crazy about workers ever since not building enough.

    6. No spread :(

    Thanks for your advice. I'll go back to my save and implement those things.
     
  6. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    5,594
    -------------------------------------------
    1. What was your capital build order?
    2. What was your starting tech path?
    3. What is the geography like?
    4. What is the religious situation like?
    5. What is the diplomatic situation like?
    6. What is the power/military situation like?
    7. What is the technology situation like?
    8. What are the buildings in your capital?
    9. What are the buildings in your other cities?
    10. What is the wonder situation like?
    11. Why is Bombay building the Pyramids?
    12. What are your current civics?
    13. What is the trade route situation like?
    14. What are the resources traded/exported/imported?
    15. How many workers do you have?
    16. How much military do you have?
    17. When did you found your second city?
    18. When did you found your third, fourth, etc.?
    19. When did your capital hit its happy cap?
    20. Have you already generated a Great Person? If so what kind?
    21. Are your cities working their cottages?
    22. What is this vague comment "Production seemed real high in my cities, so I finished a lot of basic infrastructure" mean?
    23. When did you start running Science specialists?
    24. What are the barbarians like in this game?
    25. Have there been any wars so far?
    26. Why is Delhi building a pointless monument?
    27. Why is your marble/corn city not being whipped to finish the monument?
    28. Do you have a designated science city?
    29. Do you have a designated production city?
    30. Did you found your capital in place or did you move it?
    31. What map is this?
    32. What map size?
    33. What game speed?
    34. What other special game options are on?
    34. WHAT WAS YOUR PLAN?
    -------------------------------------------
     
  7. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    I'll give it a go once I get back from work, I've avoided looking at your picture as much as possible to avoid giving me an unfair amount of information to go on but you should probably put in a spoiler for it.
     
  8. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    419
    DMOC:

    Spoiler :
    1. What was your capital build order? Worker-Warrior-Settler-Warrior-Settler-Warrior-After this not too sure, but barracks/granary and some workers and settlers came in.

    2. What was your starting tech path? Agri>AH>BW>I think the Wheel

    3. What is the geography like? I have a large side of the continent to myself.

    4. What is the religious situation like? All buddhist except for me; I've had no spread.

    5. What is the diplomatic situation like? All cautious with me.

    6. What is the power/military situation like? Atrocious. I suck at military.

    7. What is the technology situation like? Also horrid. Teching has not gone well. Most civs are ahead of me by 6-7 techs.

    8. What are the buildings in your capital? Barracks, Granary, and Library

    9. What are the buildings in your other cities? Pretty much the same; Varanasi and Agra are undeveloped.

    10. What is the wonder situation like? I've had none so far.

    11. Why is Bombay building the Pyramids? To grab cash.

    12. What are your current civics? All the default, except for slavery

    13. What is the trade route situation like? Need to check.

    14. What are the resources traded/exported/imported? None so far.

    15. How many workers do you have? 7-8

    16. How much military do you have? Close to none.

    17. When did you found your second city? I believe around 2800 BC

    18. When did you found your third, fourth, etc.? Third was about 15 turns after second, fourth about 25 after that.

    19. When did your capital hit its happy cap? Not sure.
    20. Have you already generated a Great Person? If so what kind? No.

    21. Are your cities working their cottages? Some of them.

    22. What is this vague comment "Production seemed real high in my cities, so I finished a lot of basic infrastructure" mean? I have plenty of hills and food, so it was easier to complete buildings.

    23. When did you start running Science specialists? Probably around 15 turns ago.

    24. What are the barbarians like in this game? Not bad, I've been able to defend alright.

    25. Have there been any wars so far? Nope.

    26. Why is Delhi building a pointless monument? Sorry, placeholder.

    27. Why is your marble/corn city not being whipped to finish the monument? That is truly my mistake. I should have done it long ago.

    28. Do you have a designated science city? Right now Delhi is doing alright, so I think that'll be good for now.

    29. Do you have a designated production city? Well, Bombay, Delhi, and Putali have decent prod., so not completely designated.

    30. Did you found your capital in place or did you move it? In place.

    31. What map is this? Continents.

    32. What map size? Standard.

    33. What game speed? Epic.

    34. What other special game options are on? None.

    34. WHAT WAS YOUR PLAN? To REX and block off the AI, possibly going for space.


    Apologies for my bad answers, I forgot a few things.

    I'm considering moving down to prince. My basics just aren't strong enough.
     
  9. Maxit

    Maxit Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    The Land of the Fee
    Except for special cases, I rely on libraries for culture expansion since I'm building them for the tech boost anyway (absolutely need cottages and population for the economic base though).
     
  10. Civman123

    Civman123 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    106
    It's hard to build libraries in new cities especially if you don't have forests to spare.
     
  11. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,226
    I'm pretty sure you're growing too much and not whipping enough.

    Varamxyz at 3 pop? You can whip a monument at 2 pop. If you didn't want a monument, you could have started a granary.

    You shouldn't have unhappiness, you could run scientists or build more workers.

    If you open borders, you might get a religion.
     
  12. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    2 mistakes:

    You should prioritize Monarchy (or the Pyramids) when you have no happiness resources.

    Improving plains tiles. Plains should be ignored until Biology.
     
  13. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Canada
    @Krick19

    That western city does not need urgent border pop and your capital certainly does not need one at all. And yea, 8 workers is enough when each of your size 3-4 cities have 10 improvements around them. Use those 8 workers to improve the southeastern and southwestern city, but do not build anymore. You're behind in tech, but should catch up.

    And yea.. don't go back to Prince unless you get really smoked.. Monarch is tough, but challenging yourself is a way to learn.
     
  14. harusame

    harusame Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    247
    Dave summed it all

    convert to budhism ASAP (should have done it earlier)
    +1 happy and boost relation by alot
    having weak army is not a big issue, if you can make AI "friendly" to you
    Kubilai khan might be a bit troublesome, but he is not your neighbour (later you can adopt bureaucracy to boost relationship to him)


    Delhi doesnt need a monument, unless you plan a cultural victory (but you should have built it earlier)
    state religion will gives +1 culture, it will help you pop your border


    you probably overexpanded, without having the money
    it is extremely important to establish a commerce city ASAP (either your capital, or your 2nd city)
     
  15. Hereditary Rule

    Hereditary Rule Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
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    Is this an "always" statement or are their qualifiers? I realize Dave deals in a lot of absolutes, but in my current game I have enough food to work some riverside plains where I was planning to put cottages for the extra 1 Commerce. No good...? [it's a dedicated commerce city]

    Sorry for the OT question. :(
     
  16. Hereditary Rule

    Hereditary Rule Warlord

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    The OP said in post #8 that he hasn't had the religion spread yet.
     
  17. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Messages:
    8,819
    Location:
    berkshire, england
    Having just played a quick game I sympathise with Krick. Its actually not an easy map to play. Its high on food and production but there's very little commerce and you end up in the trap of building relatively useless stuff because you have to build something. There's also a shortage of happy resources. Its quite a big area so you also have barbs to consider. At the same time you can sense its got a lot of potential if you can get going so you don't necessarily want the neighbours inviting themselves over.

    I had some luck in my game (popped silver in a mine for more happiness and a bit more commerce). I also built chariots instead of warriors. The main difference is that I went for pyramids. Still didn't get them built until 395bc after chopping five forests in the capital. That was also lucky. Pyramids can certainly get built earlier than that.

    Edit: All my cities had monuments built/chopped/whipped. If a religion doesn't spread then you can't adopt it. Research was so slow that libraries would have been very late getting built.
     
  18. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Location:
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    @Krick19. I've just had a look at your savegame. Its actually easy to fix from where you are. Simply run two scientists in every city and don't worry about production because you're running out of things to build anyway. You may as well starve Delhi back to its happy cap. Disband your warriors and replace them with chariots. Gandhi is philosophical so you'll soon get them GS rolling in.
     
  19. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    i tried it out, it's hard to cottage. get writing fast and run scientists. even then, it's hard to keep yourself in the black at 100% gold if you expand aggressively.
     
  20. Daedal

    Daedal Prince

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
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    Location:
    trapped in your monitor
    @Hereditary Rule: If you have so much food that it'll cause you happiness problems you can work plains cottages WHILE working toward increasing your happy cap. If it's a dedicated commerce city you'll work those plains cottages eventually anyway so you might as well mature them.

    @Krick19: Every one of your cities has food resources (ie: concentrated pockets of FOOD). Whip them down in size to control unhappiness/create :hammers:/save on upkeep. Get specialists going to help with science. Get monarchy - switch to hereditary rule - build a standing army for happiness and to secure your power rating. Expand vertically, war to ~10-12 cities, transition to cottages and tech your way to space. I think you've got a good chance to pull this off.
     

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