Where is your grammar?

[Eran of Arcadia]

I fail to see how you arrived at the bold part. I think language in England has survived without black American English. English has always been malleable without black American English

He means that without creolization (the process by which two languages mix, of which AAVE is just an example), English would not be anything like what it is.

 

[Phlegmak]

He means that without creolization (the process by which two languages mix, of which AAVE is just an example), English would not be anything like what it is.

Well, that's obvious. English makes use of words from a tremendous number of different languages. For example, "garage" is derived from French and "exit" is derived from Latin.

I doubt that's what he meant though.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I doubt that's what he meant though.

No, it is; he spoke of creolization as in AAVE, he clearly wasn't saying that English would never have existed without AAVE.

 

[GinandTonic]

Personally im dyslexic. Not terribly (I was half way through a 2.1 eng lit degree when I was diagnosed) but enough that my spelling sucks a big one.

The greatest strength of english is that it adopts new words and structures. I love living in a country where people understand the difference between kosher and pukka. If a word exists in another language use it. If it doesnt, invent it.

Having said that listening spokesmen for the us millitary can be like watching someone kicking a cute kitten, but you just have to take the rough with the smooth I guess.

EDIT - Typo, ha.

 

[Tycoon101]

How important is this to you?


Do you really mean "to no end"?
This implies there is no purpose to your irritation.
Did you instead mean to say "no end".
This would indicate your irritation is limitless.
Which is it?


If you want the "and", you should omit the comma.
"Why can't people learn to make fully punctuated and grammatically correct sentences?"
or, possibly,
"Why can't people learn to make fully punctuated, grammatically correct, sentences?"


As the "place" in the sub-clause does not match the original "places", should we take this as an imperative?


A sentence without a verb is a sorry thing.


I assume you mean "are" not rampant.


You might possibly value my opinions.
I doubt you would like them.
I do not think you sound at all snooty.

Thank you for the suggestions on my grammar, and, in fact, I do like to have my spelling and grammar critiqued. If they go unchecked, then they make the entire paragraph seem rambling and confusing (much in the same way that the excerpt by Padma was posed).

I just dislike them due to the wasted time needed to decipher the sentences, when one could politely make an eloquently relevant statement with proper spelling and grammar.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

It irritates me too. Sometimes it gets so that I can't even comprehend what the writer wrote.

1000

 

[Fifty]

I fail to see how you arrived at the bold part. I think language in England has survived without black American English. English has always been malleable without black American English

Eran was right.

It isn't just English but nearly all languages that develop by virtue of Creolization. I was saying that without that process, English (or any other modern language) would cease to exist as we know it.

The point being that one shouldn't refer to "black english" as if it is some degraded form of language. It is every bit as rule-bound and complex as any other language. It is simply an evolved blend of several languages (linguists don't completely agree on exactly which languages resulted in AAVE)

The relevance to the overall discussion is that grammatical "imperfections" are often just reflections of the true function of language: utility. As long as the utility of language is preserved (that is, meaning is conveyed) there is nothing remotely wrong with deviating from some arbitrary set of rules.

 

[Gogf]

On a similar note, I find it interesting how many people on the internet don't know how to spell the word "lose."

 

[Shaihulud]

No idea, I am on CFC precisely to improve my english. Leet speak is used purposely to annoy, in most cases.

 

[Perfection]

I can't post with the same speed if I proofread.

Grammar takes a backseat for this spammar.

 

[FeelGood]

I`m not a native speaker but always try to use good English. But still, we are human and may make some mistakes.

How funny is when sometimes, non-native speakers are using good English while some natives never bother about that.

ps: Any mistake here ?

 

[nihilistic]

For the record, African American Vernacular English is just as rule-bound and complex as "standard" English.

No, it isn't. Unless you consider multiple deliberate misspellings of each word as "standard" and rampant doule-negatives (when not refering to a positive) "rule-bound".

 

[Sidhe]

I`m not a native speaker but always try to use good English. But still, we are human and may make some mistakes.

How funny is when sometimes, non-native speakers are using good English while some natives never bother about that.

ps: Any mistake here ?

How funny is ?(how funny is what? Put an it in there, it's an indefinite article, or it describes something indefinite) when sometimes, non-native speakers are using(are using is present tense but your clearly talking about the past, use is a better conjugation than using for this context and put a comma in, it's sound grammar almost always before while) While some native speakers don't bother about that (should be whilst past tense again but while is acceptable if you live in the US, I'm being fussy here I'd probably say while as well, but for techinical English anality)

How funny is it when sometimes, non-native speakers use good English, whilst some native speakers never bother about that.

Well you did ask

anality word I just made up derived from anal meaning the action of being overly worried about perfection, or a colossal pedant

 

[Mirc]

Why can't people learn to make fully punctuated, and grammatically correct sentences? This applies to all age groups, inside and out of the CFC. I see improper grammar in a great deal of places, place where spelling and grammar are key to the interpretation of the paragraph. Even books for God's sake!

Because I am not a native english speaker, do not meet english speakers very often, and my only source of English is the TV.

 

[classical_hero]

No offense taken.

I find this forum not too bad grammar-wise. I hate those forums (fora?) where people write using numbers and shortcuts like "I've 2 go 2 yr hous str8 away'

As a non-native I also would like to see correct grammar, so mine doesn't get worse by reading these forums (fora).

As an example, when classical hero says: "I beat you on that" Shouldn't it be "I've beaten" or 'I beaten you on that?' or are the two forms allowed? I studied the 'beaten' form mainly, but it seems that nobody uses it.

EDIT: And I don't mind if somebody corrects my grammar, as long as they provide a valid correction.

I really don't care too much about grammer.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

I really don't care too much about grammer.

After going to a school for six years that had the word in it's name, I was infused with the permanent disabilty of never being able to mispell grammir.

 

[Rossiya]

On a similar note, I find it interesting how many people on the internet don't know how to spell the word "lose."

my bloody biology teacher said on a graph i did: "You would loose 1 mark here"

how can he correct me on a graph when he can't spell a four letter word?

 

[Rossiya]

After going to a school for six years that had the word in it's name, I was infused with the permanent disabilty of never being able to mispell grammir.

i know, i hate it when people can't spell grammur.

 

[Fifty]

No, it isn't. Unless you consider multiple deliberate misspellings of each word as "standard" and rampant doule-negatives (when not refering to a positive) "rule-bound".

You don't understand.

Within its own structure, it is rule bound and complex just as English is.

What you are doing is comparing different structures and assuming one is "wrong" and one is "right". Neither is wrong and neither is right. They both work, and that's all that matters.

There is nothing inherently incorrect about a double negative. Sure, in standard English (well most languages probably) it is considered incorrect, but that doesn't really matter. All that matters is that meaning is conveyed, and indeed if you study AAVE you'll find that its structure is very rule bound in its own way. You wouldn't hear an AAVE speaker saying "I'm not not going to school today". You might hear "I aint never talking to him again", but in such a sentance meaning is clearly conveyed in a rule-bound manner. Another example would be the use of the word "be":

Grammatically correct in AAVE:

SE Teacher: What does your mother do?
AAVE Student: She be home.

Grammatically incorrect in AAVE:

SE Teacher: Where is your mother right now?
AAVE Student: She be home.



The main point is that AAVE does have a self-contained rule-bound structure, and while it isn't quite as nuanced as a full-blown language (it is still just a creole after all), it is linguistically incorrect to say that it is a degraded, sloppy, or wrong form of speaking. Just because those rules aren't the same as in English, doesn't mean they are wrong.

 

[Sidhe]

chill mon, I is respectin your message, I&I is in Babylon with Ja. we is all one brotherhood mon, speratin by the common tongue *that teeth smacking thing Jamaicans do to indicate displeasure with something*

He's absolutely right, English is rich and diverse and you can only find this by listening to the complexity of local dialects, grammar need not apply.