Hai guyz wat if teh romans used heron's steam engine to conquer the world and then they created a big steampunk empire and colonized amerika, afrika,and india,? would the romans be in space?
here is my map:
While We Wait: Boredom Strikes Back
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Hai guyz wat if teh romans used heron's steam engine to conquer the world and then they created a big steampunk empire and colonized amerika, afrika,and india,? would the romans be in space?
here is my map:
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
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Three hundred years of settlement would be more than sufficient for the Roman colonies to firmly establish themselves, before Rome withdrew. You'd see some sort of hybrid culture, like Britain, but they wouldn't be wiped out.
Lord of Elves
Suede-Denim Secret Police
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Rome can into space.
SKILORD
Insurgent
My essay about Alternate History (Adderall and Summer.... strange brew....):
Alternate History is total bunk, let's just go ahead and say it. Mad respect to Dachs, and I understand how Dachs uses alternate history to both practice and show off his knowledge of the tiniest historical details and also his knowledge of the mechanics of historical progress. But it's all bunk, it is all by its definition implausible. The South did not win the Civil War, the Reich didn't win the Second World War and Hellenistic Culture took a nosedive after nobody could hold Alexander's Empire together. I do not care how many nails you are willing to provide, the kingdom will not and cannot be saved, and it is fiction.
Having said that I greatly enjoy alternate history and have for the better part of a decade, I have dozens of books on the subject. What I find interesting is not the minute historical details (Although if you look at, say, Ripper or Pax Germania you can see that I do take care to incorporate such things as a gesture of goodwill to the genre). My whole style of writing instead is focused on setting, and on creating a total world setting because the world creates the characters and defines them. Alternate History provides a lot of ways to play with the setting in radical ways and bring up interesting perspectives on race, nationalism, and even (if you accept my "product of their environment" thesis) human nature or (yes, Dachs) History. People can nitpick but at the end of the day your timeline is no less plausible than The Man in the High Castle or Ruled Britannia, but again both Mr. Dick (R.I.P.) and Mr. Turtledove understood that they were not creating a timeline for a timeline's sake but in order to create a compelling environment for their characters to behave in ways that simply aren't plausible without the divergence (Shakespeare writing revolutionary propaganda? Factories mass producing fake Civil War relics?).
Now to my notes on your timeline specifically. I find it a little too Eurocentric. Frankly instead of Rome I would go with China, even before the Treasure Ship fleets it's a more plausible sail (up North, running along the coast and BAM, admittedly the Pacific is a beast, but IMHO China getting to the new world in a sort of pre-Treasure Ship prototype is more plausible than the Romans getting there).
I think it would be a more entertaining world to watch the Chinese, the Caliphates and the Tribes dividing Rome into spheres of influence. Then the divergence is simple, no Mongols. But I also do not believe that the administrative structure of Rome was up to the task, it was high on ambition but also at the whim of people like Nero and Caligula who, I'm willing to guess, mismanaged things a little in the bureaucracy. You either need a stronger Imperial Succession for the Ceasers with fewer cases of adoption, in which case Christianity couldn't have gotten big in Europe so that people were willing to worship their God King rather than be 'citizens' of a 'state' with their own personal beliefs. The other option is probably to keep the Republic and change whatever the hell you want based on the reforms of 44 B.C. and then just say Democracy Rulez if anyone tries to give you any crap about it, and the new meritocratic Republic, while probably not as large or aggressive as its imperial counterpart, why not say it has more staying power? If it makes a good environment for your characters to play in that is what is important.
But either of these serves to make Rome less central and I don't know, maybe you're going for a Rome thing. Trust me, I've been there myself.
This is probably no help to anyone. But that's what internet forums are for. To be completely unhelpful.
Alternate History is total bunk, let's just go ahead and say it. Mad respect to Dachs, and I understand how Dachs uses alternate history to both practice and show off his knowledge of the tiniest historical details and also his knowledge of the mechanics of historical progress. But it's all bunk, it is all by its definition implausible. The South did not win the Civil War, the Reich didn't win the Second World War and Hellenistic Culture took a nosedive after nobody could hold Alexander's Empire together. I do not care how many nails you are willing to provide, the kingdom will not and cannot be saved, and it is fiction.
Having said that I greatly enjoy alternate history and have for the better part of a decade, I have dozens of books on the subject. What I find interesting is not the minute historical details (Although if you look at, say, Ripper or Pax Germania you can see that I do take care to incorporate such things as a gesture of goodwill to the genre). My whole style of writing instead is focused on setting, and on creating a total world setting because the world creates the characters and defines them. Alternate History provides a lot of ways to play with the setting in radical ways and bring up interesting perspectives on race, nationalism, and even (if you accept my "product of their environment" thesis) human nature or (yes, Dachs) History. People can nitpick but at the end of the day your timeline is no less plausible than The Man in the High Castle or Ruled Britannia, but again both Mr. Dick (R.I.P.) and Mr. Turtledove understood that they were not creating a timeline for a timeline's sake but in order to create a compelling environment for their characters to behave in ways that simply aren't plausible without the divergence (Shakespeare writing revolutionary propaganda? Factories mass producing fake Civil War relics?).
Now to my notes on your timeline specifically. I find it a little too Eurocentric. Frankly instead of Rome I would go with China, even before the Treasure Ship fleets it's a more plausible sail (up North, running along the coast and BAM, admittedly the Pacific is a beast, but IMHO China getting to the new world in a sort of pre-Treasure Ship prototype is more plausible than the Romans getting there).
I think it would be a more entertaining world to watch the Chinese, the Caliphates and the Tribes dividing Rome into spheres of influence. Then the divergence is simple, no Mongols. But I also do not believe that the administrative structure of Rome was up to the task, it was high on ambition but also at the whim of people like Nero and Caligula who, I'm willing to guess, mismanaged things a little in the bureaucracy. You either need a stronger Imperial Succession for the Ceasers with fewer cases of adoption, in which case Christianity couldn't have gotten big in Europe so that people were willing to worship their God King rather than be 'citizens' of a 'state' with their own personal beliefs. The other option is probably to keep the Republic and change whatever the hell you want based on the reforms of 44 B.C. and then just say Democracy Rulez if anyone tries to give you any crap about it, and the new meritocratic Republic, while probably not as large or aggressive as its imperial counterpart, why not say it has more staying power? If it makes a good environment for your characters to play in that is what is important.
But either of these serves to make Rome less central and I don't know, maybe you're going for a Rome thing. Trust me, I've been there myself.
This is probably no help to anyone. But that's what internet forums are for. To be completely unhelpful.
Starlife
de la terre à la lune
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I am going for an American nations thing, not a Rome thing. Rome was simply a catalyst. The Chinese would do just fine, as well. What you write is interesting, SKILORD. And I think it is important to note that this is just for fun.
Ninja Dude
Sorry, I wasn't listening...
Dachs is a guy. 
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
what is this I don't even
SKILORD
Insurgent
Dachs' gender is up to it to decide, don't lock it up with your social categories and your genetic fatalism.
Kraznaya
Princeps
SKILORD, do you know what "plausible" means?
HINT: It doesn't have the same definition as "true."
HINT: It doesn't have the same definition as "true."
Freemanuncg
Warlord
Well, the truth lends to the plausibility.....
But also, those are rumors, and the idea is that the Chinese would have had a more significant impact on the Americas.
But also, those are rumors, and the idea is that the Chinese would have had a more significant impact on the Americas.
Starlife
de la terre à la lune
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Also interesting is that there are aspects of Chinese culture that are somewhat similar to aspects of indigenous American culture.
Immaculate
unerring
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Starlife
de la terre à la lune
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Nice links, Immac. I'm leaning more towards attempting a Chinese scenario with this. It'll give me a chance to brush up on those Chinese religions courses I took in college.
EDIT: Speaking of that, someone in that thread mentioned ghost worship in Chinese lands further from dynastic capitals. This is an excellent idea for potential Chinese-American colonies. So much more fun to do something I know a little bit more about instead of just using the Romans. Also, the point someone else makes about the Song dynasty is a good one (though I wouldn't entertain it is actually 'plausible' - I'd still be stretching it to pretty strange limits).
I guess in a way, though, I was excited about using more New England-centered tribes. But they could potentially come into play later on.
EDIT: Speaking of that, someone in that thread mentioned ghost worship in Chinese lands further from dynastic capitals. This is an excellent idea for potential Chinese-American colonies. So much more fun to do something I know a little bit more about instead of just using the Romans. Also, the point someone else makes about the Song dynasty is a good one (though I wouldn't entertain it is actually 'plausible' - I'd still be stretching it to pretty strange limits).
I guess in a way, though, I was excited about using more New England-centered tribes. But they could potentially come into play later on.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
immac, you a member of AH.com?
Immaculate
unerring
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no, i am not.
Kraznaya
Princeps
That's about as relevant as seeing aspects of European culture that are "somewhat similar" to aspects of Indian culture.
That's just insulting. Do you ask people if they are members of Stormfront?
Immaculate
unerring
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<whoosh>
the sound of something going over my head.
the sound of something going over my head.
Starlife
de la terre à la lune
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No. It is not. By the way your use of 'Indian' in this context is hilarious, seeing as Buddhism originated in India.
@Immac: Your avatar is misleading.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
Really? it has that bad of a reputation here? I mean... comparing it to stormfront. that's something
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