While We Wait: Part 5

I'd pick one them just to spite you.

In off topic I've been talking about being closer to USA, hell I've said we should join. But Christ the way you act can destroy all that. Its disturbing.
 
In off topic I've been talking about being closer to USA, hell I've said we should join. But Christ the way you act can destroy all that. Its disturbing.
Yeah, look me, I'm a goddamn monster, arguing that we use our position to cleverly and indirectly weaken quasi-tyrannical states with strong records of subverting freedom and democracy, which have ambitions of restoring their spheres of influence throughout the world so they boss their client states around instead of work with them as allies. God, I'm such an dick, wanting a future for humanity that is free from despotism, and using a little bit of a bait-and-switch policy to get there.

That or you're just really anti-authority and hate the idea of people telling you what to do, even if it's for your own good. I wonder which? Try pointing out what's so "disturbing" next time.
 
Yeah, look me, I'm a goddamn monster, arguing that we use our position to cleverly and indirectly weaken quasi-tyrannical states with strong records of subverting freedom and democracy, which have ambitions of restoring their spheres of influence throughout the world so they boss their client states around instead of work with them as allies. God, I'm such an dick, wanting a future for humanity that is free from despotism, and using a little bit of a bait-and-switch policy to get there.

That or you're just really anti-authority and hate the idea of people telling you what to do, even if it's for your own good. I wonder which?

Hell no Im all for authority, its just I don't like you.
 
I see, so when I say something it automatically becomes bad regardless of content. Good to know you're a sane and rational part of this species. I was beginning to have my doubts.
 
I see, so when I say something it automatically becomes bad regardless of content. Good to know you're a sane and rational part of this species. I was beginning to have my doubts.

Only if I don't like the sound of it, and I didn't like the sound of what you were proposing. You just need to work on tarting up your posts you always come across as arrogant smug etc.
I suppose it doesnt help that I now assoicate you with arrogance, so all your posts come across like that.
 
Appeasing you isn't high on my list of priorities, so I think I'll just stay the way I am, thanks.
 
lurker's comment: I've been lurking this forum (not thread, forum) for the insightful discussions, occasional fun and entertaining stories for a good while now, and while I seldom post I couldn't resist the urge to point out how awesome this post by Symphony D. is.
It may sound like arse licking but I just wanted to make sure that everyone read it carefully, twice.

Hm.... You mean Fallout 3 is awesome?

:lol:

Just kidding. I agree. Although: Long live China! Die Communists who tried to make my mom a bord. :joke:
 
...bord?

First playthrough of Fallout 3 is complete. Power Armor + Cowboy Hat = Chuch Norris's Grandchild.

Once more into the breach, my friends. I hear there's a golden AK somewhere out there...
 
You're on the internet; try using it sometime.

My nationalism is also motivated by practicality. I think the world is moving towards a gradual unification, in 100 to 200 years, and whoever is in charge at that point will determine the course of human society and government as humanity leaves Earth. I prefer the American model to the alternatives, and I am not afraid to say so, or to defend that assertion. If there were a better model, I would advocate it. There isn't one, so I don't. If you would like to argue that humanity would be better off with Russia or China leading the world than with America doing so, feel free to make your case.

If you don't, then you too should also hope to see the American reign continue in a multilateral fashion with Europe, because it is the only system that provides the backbone to the democracy and freedoms you enjoy. The whole "can't we all just be friends" argument of everyone being equals is a ridiculous teenage fantasy-interpretation of the world and I won't even bother shooting it down, so I'd prefer if nobody makes it. In human societies there will always be leaders. In the global political stage, I like that leader being America, and I would like it to continue being America, because I don't like the idea of somebody putting polonium in my hot chocolate or having to reroute my IP through Sweden to view my favorite websites.

Just as long as America (as the Bush administration didn't) remembers that the free world doesn't mind them having the biggest slice, as long as everyone else gets some of the pie too ;).
 
Only if I don't like the sound of it, and I didn't like the sound of what you were proposing. You just need to work on tarting up your posts you always come across as arrogant smug etc.
I suppose it doesnt help that I now assoicate you with arrogance, so all your posts come across like that.

It's easy to be arrogant when your right.
 
Just as long as America (as the Bush administration didn't) remembers that the free world doesn't mind them having the biggest slice, as long as everyone else gets some of the pie too ;).

And to make the pie bigger :D

While I have my doubts on man's capability to colonize the stars in the next few centuries, Symphony makes excellent points. What do we want future generations to have? The United States, despite our problems, is the best hope for the world compared to the other options.
 
So, the USA wins according to... citizens of the USA?

I say: Sweden/Denmark for the win. They have some good ideas.

But lets face it, in the grand scheme of things, all humans are tribal barbarians, including the USA. The concept of nations is itself founded on warfare, division and servitude. Nations are destined to remain consumed with the struggle for status, influence and resources, inside and out.

The beings that could make it into space are the long-term descendents of humans, improved by genetic engineering and/or technology, with the awareness and intelligence to cooperate on a larger scale and in a much more effecient way than humans as we know them today.

In any case, other planets in our solar system will have nothing more than science bases and automated mines/factories for a very long time. They will not be colonized with large numbers of people until Antartica on our own planet becomes overpopulated. IMO.
 
Do you guys think SNL destroyed Sarah Palin, or made her look better?
 
The beings that could make it into space are the long-term descendents of humans, improved by genetic engineering and/or technology, with the awareness and intelligence to cooperate on a larger scale and in a much more effecient way than humans as we know them today.
Cooperation is to be valued, but so too are competition and conflict. The first C without the other two C's is useless. It leads nowhere but stagnation and a slow decay. All human progress to date has been dominated by self-interest channeled into positive avenues, and it will remain that way. Altruism among our species exists overwhelmingly in the interests of self-preservation, by a variety of mechanisms.

I see no reason for that to change. In fact, I wouldn't like it to change. It simply needs to be better controlled and focused--a gun instead of a bomb. What you describe as the future of humanity to me sounds like an inferior knock-off version, like a fake $10 Rolex.

As an example, I'm not concerned about the prospects of someday finding some alien civilization more peaceful and cooperative than us. Odds are if forced to, technology being equal, we could kick the crap out of them, because our species is about as violent as a species can be without destroying itself. We are built to survive. What worries me is someday, in the distant future, finding something worse than us that has likewise survived.

I lump any such "improvement" to the human race which strips it of its most vital survival assets in the former category, personally. Our species is where it is both because it can cooperate and compete, because it can be both extremely brutal and extremely compassionate, it can be peaceful and violent. That's the duality of nature. Tear one side off the equation, and the other half equals zero--it becomes void.

We should always strive to be the best we can be. We should aim to subdue rather than destroy. But if necessary, we should always be willing to contemplate the otherwise unthinkable. To do less is to effectively commit suicide as a species on the evolutionary timescale. Human survival is paramount, and the human condition is the penultimate concern. For the former, capability for violence is required, and for the latter, the ultimate triumph of Western values.

They will not be colonized with large numbers of people until Antartica on our own planet becomes overpopulated. IMO.
lolwhut
 
Symphony D, if hypothetically the human race came across a peaceful race like the one you described, what would you advocate doing to them?
 
We humans are a destructive lot. I imagine that we would get along for a while and then randomly kill everyone with our nukes. Then again, that’s just my idea. :D
 
Symphony D, if hypothetically the human race came across a peaceful race like the one you described, what would you advocate doing to them?
If they don't mess with us, there's no particularly compelling reason to mess with them. Achieve a superior trade and commerce position as per typical democratic-state infighting, as applicable.

I maintain this position for domestic exoflora and exofauna to a point, beyond which if they are sufficiently archaic (such as say what we might find on Mars, if anything--and I do hope it's a dead planet, there will be less opposition to terraforming; let it be on Europa instead) then I have no problem with Earth-based organisms overrunning them. Biology is a competition. If an organism is so primitive it can't stand up to Earth's microbes then it loses the game, and was probably (depending on the age of the biosphere) never going to amount to anything anyway.
 
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