While We Wait: The Next Generation

[Kraznaya]

Lurking in the Age of War, I have to say I'm very suspicious of the multiple similarly themed new accounts with no avatar all coalescing around that one NES. Something doesn't smell right there.

 

[Angst]

Well, there are three possible situations:

1) Warhead gathered people from his class, or newbs from around the web
2) Somebody has multiple accounts
3) Warhead smells

Irregardless, I think you should contact the mods about it if you are concerned.

 

[Angst]

And I excuse myself from double-posting; but I have just updated my NES. It took a while, I hope you all like it.

 

[Adrogans]

I am so confused. were we supposed to PM or were the responses in thread enough to be orders?

Its fun though.

 

[Angst]

I am so confused. were we supposed to PM or were the responses in thread enough to be orders?

Its fun though.

Right now, it's up for the players, really (I have to clean my PM Inbox though), but currently people are so vague that there's no reason to PM anyone... At least as of yet

 

[Ninja Dude]

Krato's yet to assert its' superiority over ANYONE, so far its' gotten beaten up by the Satar and supplied the conscripts for the Moti force that finally defeated them.

Before you came into the picture, I was busy absorbing minor countries in the south. You clearly don't know what you are talking about, because I've conquered on average at least one per turn, atleast in these more recent updates. I'll see if I can make a list of updates, along with who I destroyed/assimilated in them.

And of course, it is debatable whether these victories are worth much, seeing as how almost all of the countries taken only had 1 or 2 cities.

 

[~Darkening~]

Posted by Ninja_Dude
You clearly don't know what you are talking about, because I've conquered on average at least one per turn, atleast in these more recent updates. I'll see if I can make a list of updates, along with who I destroyed/assimilated in them.

*cough*Notthatspecial,ifyouaskme: p*cough*.

 

[Ninja Dude]

*cough*Notthatspecial,ifyouaskme: p*cough*.

*cough*tillprovesi'vebeenassertingmysuperiorityovermanyofthosearoundme*cough*

 

[Kal'thzar]

Guys quit it, you remind me of the difficulties of keeping a very large alliance togther and you all have an ego that needs strokeing

 

[Abaddon]

Lurking in the Age of War, I have to say I'm very suspicious of the multiple similarly themed new accounts with no avatar all coalescing around that one NES. Something doesn't smell right there.

Well, there are three possible situations:

1) Warhead gathered people from his class, or newbs from around the web
2) Somebody has multiple accounts
3) Warhead smells

Irregardless, I think you should contact the mods about it if you are concerned.

Isn't Warhead garble-bargle-garble

 

[Angst]

BLABLABLA

DUDE, mute this! Edit it away!

 

[Abaddon]

Bah, why does he get away with it an not moi?

 

[Adrogans]

And I believe it's been stated before.

 

[Oruc]

Isnt warhead what? what!?

 

[Ninja Dude]

Guys quit it, you remind me of the difficulties of keeping a very large alliance togther and you all have an ego that needs strokeing

I just like to inflate my ego to counter others. If everyone became modest, I'd probably be modest too.

And besides, none of us are allied. Darkening is in the north, so I don't care what happens to him, and Thlayli is the Satar, which are crippled. Of course, if Thlayli addmitted the error of his ways and pledged alleigance to the great Uggor of Krato and Moti, I might consider letting him become a vassal.

 

[Abaddon]

Warhead is an awesome guy. Leave it at that.

An HEY!

I need more GANG members and a Mayor for my HexNES! Last 2 slots!!!

 

[Kal'thzar]

I just like to inflate my ego to counter others. If everyone became modest, I'd probably be modest too.

And besides, none of us are allied. Darkening is in the north, so I don't care what happens to him, and Thlayli is the Satar, which are crippled. Of course, if Thlayli addmitted the error of his ways and pledged alleigance to the great Uggor of Krato and Moti, I might consider letting him become a vassal.

I said its LIKE it, the good thing is your more likely to kill each other off presently...

 

[Thlayli]

I just like to inflate my ego to counter others. If everyone became modest, I'd probably be modest too.

And besides, none of us are allied. Darkening is in the north, so I don't care what happens to him, and Thlayli is the Satar, which are crippled. Of course, if Thlayli addmitted the error of his ways and pledged alleigance to the great Uggor of Krato and Moti, I might consider letting him become a vassal.

Didn't you read my story? The Satar are no longer a coherent nation-state.

I've already made separate negotiations with das regarding the political status of Magha and that area.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Didn't you read my story? The Satar are no longer a coherent nation-state.

I've already made separate negotiations with das regarding the political status of Magha and that area.

I did, but I'm still lumping them all together as inferior beings. And besides, you have one Prince left, which I'm guessing you still have control of. That makes in control of at least one possible Satar threat.

 

[Masada]

As you said, the problem is that it's not really European at all (Europeans have had other mentalities in the past, and there are other regions outside of Europe that can perhaps exemplify it better at times). It's more Imperial Eurasian or Hyperterritorial Statist Eurasian (or maybe it should be called the Path of the Reckless Elephant or the Human Anthill State?), since it has more to do with current demographics and social formations ( ) than with any particular region or for that matter time (and the cultural sensibilities that you mentioned proceed from it rather than the other way around).

I like to use Oikumene to connote Imperial bearing territories at a point of time. It's manifestly at least in the minds of Europeans a European affair - it also colors extensively our understanding of non-Oikumene states. I prefer to call it European, simply because most people understand it at as European affair first and then apply it elsewhere. Nevertheless its not justa European affair.

It's really a mix of demographics, geography, social formations (although this is subject to debate, I believe that social formations adjust organically almost by default with a change in dominance of factors), economics and a whole host of other factors which come into play as time goes on. I'll grant region is probably not the most accurate term, but at any given point in time, where there is a transfer in the dominant factor of a given group from land to population this will happen... isn't as pretty .

Which comes first? Probably a change in population density because of a rise in the relative importance of land vs. population, followed by a shift in culture as the new paradigm is recognized, internalized and then adapted to by the population on the whole. These adaptions are going to be institutional adaptions - think my three layers in CKNES.

You mentioned Srivijaya, but what about the other states? Srivijaya sort of is the Carthage of the (South-)East. Others might have different attitudes. Though ofcourse Pirenne aside Dark Age taxation is barely a system, so I suppose that doesn't count or merely means that Dark Age European states were semi-Mandalas.

I don't think there was significant deviation from having trade as the primary source of revenue. It's a bizarre form of Dutch Disease with a few differences,

Dutch disease is an economic concept that tries to explain the apparent relationship between the exploitation of natural resources and a decline in the manufacturing sector combined with moral fallout.

The ease of garnering trade dollars, inextricably weakens the rest of the economy, as everyone who can move over to the easy trade dollars does. Predictably this narrows the depth and width of the taxation base which causes significant problems for those trying to extract revenue. It also makes the state hyper sensitive to differences in trade. One can draw parallels between a modern day Petro-state and a Narco-state, you see similar ossification there.


*

I can go into further depth about Dutch disease if anyone wants - I have some interesting ideas about its effect on population.

I would think that two would be the bigger deal? I'm far from sure about Mesopotamian succession (as opposed to Egyptian succession), anyway, but it was reasonably chaotic. Or did you mean the dynastic instability, as in Iron Age Babylon?

Srivijayan succession looks to have been a "family affair" insofar as the family is both very large and may not exactly be family. It leads to significant chaos, as everyone even tangentially related with a half decent chance could lay a claim on the throne. Predictably this led to significant problems, and further exacerbated the propensity of vassals et al to calve of at regular intervals only to need to be retaken with a flow of... trade dollars. Relation was also not a requirement, and its looks like dynastic shifts did occur with regularity (dynastic being out of distant family).

15th century Muscovy was hyper-centralised and still relied a lot on interpersonal relations, though I suppose that's more a case of history in flux (the population was rather low, especially if you touch upon density, but on the other hand the assorted feudals were way too numerous and multiplying, hence the many if not all the bad things that happened in the 16th century).

Why was it hyper-centralized? Might it be to avoid some of the aforementioned problems