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While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by Nylan, Dec 24, 2011.

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  1. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    Yes, Our current great ruler has been horrible in international politics... and our government is practically a right wing nuttyfest. How do we get the world to push the international forces solution?
     
  2. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    Well, what pushed Europe into finally getting serious about Russia in Ukraine was an airliner being shot down so... something like another USS Liberty incident might do it. Turkey was throwing around the idea of another relief convoy―with an armed escort after last time. Maybe if something like that got sent and shot up and they invoked NATO Article 5?

    Probably Israel has to kill a lot more Palestinian civilians to get the US to act or Israel has to somehow shoot the completely wrong people, like if the UN is poking around its bombed out schools and their convoy gets totally lit up or something. If Hamas did it Israel would probably get more breathing room instead, and it's not like they have much credible to do that kind of thing with anyway.
     
  3. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    You do know you are practically saying it will never happen?
     
  4. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    Yes. Short of Israel messing up, your next best bet is Obama getting pissed off enough to take off the gloves, which even if he were to do because hey, he's a lame duck, would probably not be until after the midterms. Or you never know, the Europeans could spontaneously become really adamant about taking it on themselves.

    I'm not holding my breath for any of these things.
     
  5. Perfectionist

    Perfectionist Angel of Verdun

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    The Israelis would say it didn't count, cause you can't invoke Article 5 when you start it, and the American right wing would start frothing at the mouth (well, frothing more) about how Turkey's gone Islamofascist and pro-terrorist and so on, the US would veto anything the UN tried, and we'd like as not end up losing an ally that's actually valuable.
     
  6. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    US can't compromise on NATO with how spooked Poland and the Baltics are and the optics over Ukraine. In the current climate if somebody invoked and it was even halfway justifiable, we'd basically have to honor it or the whole thing would shatter into pieces instantly. Republicans are already "will they won't they" on trying to impeach Obama, might as well gun it and let'em try it. The bounce to Dems in the midterms would probably be worth it.
     
  7. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    He'll would freeze before Europe will support Turkey over Israel, especially currently...
     
  8. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    Europe doesn't run NATO.
     
  9. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    It makes up most of it...
     
  10. Perfectionist

    Perfectionist Angel of Verdun

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    That's what the career diplomats would say, but they don't get a say and the politicians and political appointees, as we've seen repeatedly, don't really care what the career guys want - or perhaps they can't even be bothered to find out. Ten years down the line I'm hopeful that particular dilemma forces us to break with Israel, but right now I doubt very much that the political climate would support it.
     
  11. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    By number. By expenditure:



    It has always been clear who runs NATO. Anyway, I think if forced to pick between NATO and Israel, Obama would pick NATO. But it won't happen either way.
     
  12. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    It wouldn't be NATO vs Israel. It would be Turkey vs Israel and I'm pretty certain they would choose Israel over Turkey. If anything Turkey would most likely be removed from NATO if they send warships to Israel...

    I also don't like the idea of the US severing ties with Israel, it is one of the only things keeping Israel semi-sane. Such a move would just send us into Russian arms with Liberputin at the helm. Agh, anything but that.

    Even if we remain alone, it would just make Israel more right wing and crazy and I think that unless we actually get invaded by the entire world, Israel could probably exist by itself for a very long time... I think it would make just make us into Hamas pretty much... I don't see how that would help.
     
  13. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    There is literally no stated way in the North Atlantic Treaty to eject a member from NATO.
     
  14. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    They could just ignore Turkey... but Ok.

    Anyway, so coming elections in the US seems to be moving towards a Republican victory... What happens then?...
     
  15. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    Imagine four Presidential vetos on the edge of a cliff...
     
  16. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    Wouldn't they be able to impeach him with controlling both houses? Or worse...? They could undo so much that has been done...
     
  17. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    Conviction in the Senate requires a 2/3 majority. If they take the Senate it'll be by a simple majority at best.
     
  18. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    Turkey should annex Israel and Palestine, reorganise it as a constitutional monarchy governed by Ottoman millet laws. They could put HRH Zeyneb Osman on the throne; she's going to need a new place to live soon, might as well put her up in Jerusalem.
     
  19. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    Oh that's good to know. What about the undoing of what has been doing, and doing some new bad things of their own? Obama vetoes in that case?
     
  20. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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    Not nearly enough ellipses in this post...
     
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