Who do you save?

Who do you save?


  • Total voters
    109
You think you are of higher value, yes? And why? Because you are human, crown of creation, the image and likeness of God? Or maybe because your parents said you you are the most important in the world? Or just because you are bigger? And of higher value for whom, for a cockroach?
I am vastly more intelligent than a cockroach, and my feelings are much more advanced. A cockroach is not even aware of its own existence, so it won't matter to it if I kill it (painlessly, if they feel pain; I'm not sure). It has no values in the same sense that humans do.

It is in the blood of every species on Earth to look after itself first. Us humans show unique restraint because of our empathy and intelligence. Any other animal who doesn't have significant natural enemies will eat its environment clean, until its population drops off because of overfeeding. Us humans have national parks, fishing quotas and the like. So I'd argue we're actually more 'balanced' than other animals, if ultimately for our own gain (we won't survive without a viable environment). Granted that until recent times we've been pretty much a cancer on the planet, and there's still plenty to do. At least we're trying.

Edit: If you are saying that all moral values are ultimately arbitrary, then I agree with you. However, why are created values not worth pursuing? Your system is nihilism in disguise, in that nothing is worth anything if everything is of the same worth. And if you are saying that everything is sacred (=absolute highest value), then how can we eat animals or plants to sustain ourselves? Isn't that upsetting the "sacred balance" too?

If I see an insect in my house, I try to throw it out of the window first without killing it. The same would be with human if he tries to rob my house :).
I kill insects without mercy, since they are non-selfaware and scare and/or annoy me, and killing them won't threaten them with extinction. Not sure what I'd do to a robber; I'd probably piss myself and say "please don't kill me!" and give him my credit card number. :lol:

@El_Mac: Are you living with a bowl of rice and water a day, +some vitamin pills, in an empty flat? Then what is this selfish murder of people? And what are you doing posting here instead of doing volunteer work?
 
Except that someone elses 'total stranger' could be someone you know or even love....

Someone didn't read the OP :nono:
A total stranger human being. You know NOTHING about this person other than it is an adult that has never, ever been a part of your life in any way. Gender cannot be determined.

Unless you meant it in a different way than what I read it as.

Did you mean "Except that your 'total stranger' could be someone else's best friend/lover...."?
 
Someone didn't read the OP :nono:

I read the OP...you simply fail to understand my comment.

A total stranger human being. You know NOTHING about this person other than it is an adult that has never, ever been a part of your life in any way. Gender cannot be determined.

This could absolutely apply to someone else choice, not your choice. Like I said, your familiy member would be a 'total stranger, that I know nothing about' in regards to my (or others in this thread) own choice in the matter. Ergo, not everyone choosing their pets are familiar with you or your family. Get it?

Unless you meant it in a different way than what I read it as.

Yup.

Did you mean "Except that your 'total stranger' could be someone else's best friend/lover...."?

Precisely.
 
Except that someone elses 'total stranger' could be someone you know or even love....

Or someone someone you know or love treasures. Eh, who cares if you accidentally hurt the feeling of a close friend or relative without them knowing, right?

All those sciences and knowledges are products of civilization history, but not of an intelligence of one random human, though he has access to them through those mechanisms of knowledge storing and communicating. So when it comes to comparing human intelligence with animal, you actually compare summarized intelligence of millions of humans of whole history with summarized intelligence of only a dozen of animals at best.
Still doesn't change the fact that they can't do what we can do with our minds. Therefore, worth less than a human.

You are too optimistic about technology.
Yeah, that kinda happens when I see it do amazing stuff, like not having children die horrifying deaths from smallpox.

And because the pet is mine (so it is a friend, or part of the family, or the creature my own life depends on, if i were an Eskimo for example :)), and the human is a complete stranger, I've chosen the pet.
Fair enough, even if I don't agree with it.
 
@El_Mac: Are you living with a bowl of rice and water a day, +some vitamin pills, in an empty flat? Then what is this selfish murder of people? And what are you doing posting here instead of doing volunteer work?

Do you realise that you just mocked me for pointing out that there are a billion malnourished people?

Maybe that's why there are a billion malnourised people.
 
Do you realise that you just mocked me for pointing out that there are a billion malnourished people?

Maybe that's why there are a billion malnourised people.
It's only mockery if you make it out to be.

My point is, there's only so much you can do, if you don't want to strip your own life down to nothing. If a starving African was transported to the West and would take my place, how much do you think s/he'd donate to charity? More than a westerner? Likely. Most of his/her earnings and ownings? Much less likely. All that s/he could, provided s/he'd survive? No way in hell, for most people. Us humans are selfish and like luxury. It's not my fault that I was born in the West and many others in less fortunate regions. The more I give to charity, the better person I am, surely. If I give everything I can, then I can be called a saint. If I give nothing at all, perhaps then I could be considered evil, since it would seem I lack empathy. Most people lie somewhere in between, and you can't really blame them imo. As you say in your sig, eliminating world poverty doesn't take all that much if we all do our part. I can give 2,5% and still feed my doggie (if I had one that is). :)

Tbh I'm surprised it would take so little. How much do people donate on average? Perhaps we're even more selfish than I thought.
 
The dog food vs. starving children in Africa is a false analogy. If you start with cutting the dog food, you continue with the car, with the house and eventually with almost all of your possession including most of your food. And there will still be millions of starving people left. It will also affect not only your pets but your own family.

Misery on such a scale can never be the responsibility of an individual, those problems can only be handled by large-scale organizations and funds. Sure, you can and should contribute, but to try to put all your effort into it will probably break you. There are people who can go all that distance, but it's nothing that can be expected of an average citizen.

OTH the person in the OP becomes your personal responsibility. Only you can save him, and doing so does not led to a spiral with you having to sacrifice all your worldly belongings.

This is the same reason why I despise the "argument" of some righties who think that just because you don't donate everything you have to charity they have demonstrated that having to pay a slighty higher amount of taxes to provide healthcare for the poor is wrong.
 
Well, my dog is almost out of dogfood again. Without dogfood, my dog will slowly starve ('cause all we have, else, is our food scraps).

Should I buy more food, or save a stranger with the same money?

Why can't you do both?
 
It's only mockery if you make it out to be.
Thanks for your reply! :)
The 2.5% figure requires the total to be spent well in order to work. However, my impression is that we're nowhere near 2.5%. If people focus their 2.5% according to their own best impressions, a lot of good could be done. There's a lot of synergy to be had.
The dog food vs. starving children in Africa is a false analogy. ...
OTH the person in the OP becomes your personal responsibility. Only you can save him, and doing so does not led to a spiral with you having to sacrifice all your worldly belongings.
Yeah, it's interesting that the problem with the crushing poverty is that (a) your contribution will never be sufficient and (b) other people should be helping too.

I wonder if the OP's question is much different if we're asked to choose between our pet & a stranger, but that there are other people around who could help save the stranger, but you know won't do so. Most people feel that dilutes the guilt of saving your pet.
Why can't you do both?
Well, in a strict sense, the money I spend keeping my dog alive cannot be used to save other people's lives. It's a perfect example of opportunity cost. As Greizer85 points out, I could spend all of my money on charity & dogfood. 100%. And I'd still be left with the choice of saving my dog's life or a stranger's life.

Now, more reasonably, my dog food bills aren't all that high. The sum cost of a dog is pretty high.
 
After reading some posts on this thread I'm left wondering why should I care about humans at all...

After reading through this... the human, if I knew he wasn't a "pet lover". Else neither, to hell with both.
Anyway, the idea of "pet that you love and treat like it is your own child" is totally foreign to me.
 
The human, since I'm a humanist.
 
Yeah, it's interesting that the problem with the crushing poverty is that (a) your contribution will never be sufficient and (b) other people should be helping too.

Well, in a strict sense, the money I spend keeping my dog alive cannot be used to save other people's lives. It's a perfect example of opportunity cost. As Greizer85 points out, I could spend all of my money on charity & dogfood. 100%. And I'd still be left with the choice of saving my dog's life or a stranger's life.

Now, more reasonably, my dog food bills aren't all that high. The sum cost of a dog is pretty high.
We gave to this outfit for our Christmas gifts this year.

http://www.heifer.org/site/c.edJRKQ...er project international&utm_campaign=general
 
Its ******** to not save the human.
 
Back
Top Bottom