Why do you or don't you believe in God?

[Iggy]

This is a cause-and-effect universe. There's a note on your door, someone wrote it. The door swings open, something caused it to swing open. Everything springing into being is the effect. If there was absolutely nothing BEFORE everything springs into being, there is no cause to produce the effect. There had to have been a cause, but according to atheists, there was NOTHING before everything sprang into being. Hmm. There had to have been an eternal object, something that is not an effect but a cause, something that isn't created.

That's why I believe in God.

There is much which is still beyond our understanding. Not all of us use a God to fill the gaps of our knowledge.

 

[puglover]

There is much which is still beyond our understanding. Not all of us use a God to fill the gaps of our knowledge.

Then what is your idea of a cause for the appearance of the universe. The only suitable possiblity is God, yet you won't accept it. You'd rather say, "we don't know" then believe what logic and deduction points to?

 

[Iggy]

Then what is your idea of a cause for the appearance of the universe. The only suitable possiblity is God, yet you won't accept it. You'd rather say, "we don't know" then believe what logic and deduction points to?

I have no problem acknowledging a lack of knowledge. I have no idea of a cause for the appearance of the universe, but I do not feel I have a need to subscribe to any unproven myth or theory.

 

[puglover]

I have no problem acknowledging a lack of knowledge. I have no idea of a cause for the appearance of the universe, but I do not feel I have a need to subscribe to any unproven myth or theory.

That's amazing faith, man.

 

[col]

Then what is your idea of a cause for the appearance of the universe. The only suitable possiblity is God, yet you won't accept it. You'd rather say, "we don't know" then believe what logic and deduction points to?

Well you either need a theory as to the creation of the universe - or a theory as to the creation of God. The former is easier and there are several good theories.

 

[puglover]

Well you either need a theory as to the creation of the universe - or a theory as to the creation of God. The former is easier and there are several good theories.

But the universe couldn't have come about without something existing before the universe! Something has never come out of nothing. Matter just magicly appearing out of nowhere is the unproven myth and theory.

As for a theory for the creation of God, this is irrelevant because there was no creation of God. As I said before, in order for a cause to not be an effect itself it would have to be eternal, else there would be a debate for the creation of God.

 

[CurtSibling]

Then what is your idea of a cause for the appearance of the universe. The only suitable possiblity is God, yet you won't accept it. You'd rather say, "we don't know" then believe what logic and deduction points to?

Why must you settle on the modern-dispensed, devotional answer?

This is a question that has more paths that just literal abstractions.

And if you cannot accept other people's thoughts, then what right have you to air yours?

And besides:
Is knowing what caused the universe as important as enjoying and controlling your part in it?

The universe seems to be a macrocosm, in relation to our own microcosm.

Think about that.

 

[puglover]

I don't believe in God simply because I don't need to. I'm sure if I needed God and religion to live my life day to day, I could convince myself that all that was real.

Feel free to disagree with Christianity (I'm not going to force you follow Jesus, I'm no fanatic), however if there was a God all along you will be judged accordingly at the end of time. A judging All-Powerful God is quite a motivation.

 

[CurtSibling]

As for a theory for the creation of God, this is irrelevant because there was no creation of God. As I said before, in order for a cause to not be an effect itself it would have to be eternal, else there would be a debate for the creation of God.

Pug, can you tell us how you know these things with such certainty?

Have you spent a lifetime of research in mystical and spiritual study?

Because a million lifetimes of study has not yet uncovered any solid data in this matter.

What makes you so special? - Please tell us.

.

 

[samildanach]

But the universe couldn't have come about without something existing before the universe! Something has never come out of nothing. Matter just magicly appearing out of nowhere is the unproven myth and theory.

I'm not an astronomer but I believe that they have telescopes that can look back almost to the point when the universe was created. I think that being able to do that may enable them to make some sort of "guess" as to what went on.

 

[Pikachu]

Do you really think you can have a love relationship with someone you will never meet, never have a chance to talk to, etc ?

Yes, of course! But I don’t think I can ever fall in love with any human I have met or anyone I have had a chance to talk to or anyone I will meet in the future etc.! This passionate love thing between humans is totally beyond me.

The huge difference between love and faith is that you understand one of them and not the other. For me it is the other way around.

 

[col]

If you can have a god that just happened and doesnt need a cause, why not a universe?

Quantum Theories of Physics do allow something to come from nothing. Simpe cause and effect is not a fundamental part of physics any more and hasnt been for a hundred years or so. Particles are spontaneously coming into being and being annihilated in their billions every second.

 

[Mathilda]

I don't believe in any gods because in my experience religions are mainly ways to control and demote people.
Christian idea of god specifically (because that's what I got most experience of) I find vicious and backstabbing.
Now last time I said something like this in equally general terms, it wasn't viewed on very favourable, so this time I'll explain why I feel this.

The christian version of my life goes like this:
God created me with ability to love women.
He through his church and prayer brought me together with the love of my life.
then he told me through the bible (which is his word) that by wanting to be with the person I love most I'm living in sin (according to my church one of the worst sins there are) with no hope of ever rectifying the situation by getting married or anything.
So I suppose I was put in front of the choice, do I choose her or him. I chose her.
You know the parable about the seeds falling on the roadside and all that. Well I am that shrub. I heard the word but then loved something else more than I loved god.

The other way to phrase it is this:
A personal experience allowed me to see the hypocricy in evangelical christianity.
I went through an experience of being told that 'God loves you as you are. He is calling you, come and join.' Which soon when I was in changed to 'It is not acceptable to be who you are. God doesn't accept all of you. You have to apologize for who you are. Apologize again, all the time, every day for the rest of your life. Ask god to make you into something else. You have to abandon who you love. You have to become something else.'
That experience has caused me to choose not to believe. That choice is so strong that I find it impossible to even find out about other gods, I believe the whole system of religion is corrupt.

 

[CurtSibling]

Devotional systems give too many simplistic, absolute answers.

They don't accept any questioning in regard to this godhead they wish my attention given to.

I cannot follow that - I demand to know the secrets, and be total master of my mind and life.

I care not for ideology that will not entertain this enterprise.

.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

In short, it strikes me as something that is a tad too good to be true.

You're telling me that there is an all-benevolent, all-powerful entity out there, and that if I only believe in him I get to enjoy eternal life in a paradisial setting? How I wish that were true! Every day I wish it, and every day I greatly lament the fact that, in all probability, it isn't. There's simply too much out there pointing to the fact that us humans are no different from other forms of life, and that studyable natural forces are behind most everything.

For those that argue that these natural forces themselves represent some sort of "god", or that some "great architect" set them into place, I say this: so what? What use is a great architect to me if he doesn't build me a great house in the sky? The answer is not much.

 

[puglover]

If you can have a god that just happened and doesnt need a cause, why not a universe?

Quantum Theories of Physics do allow something to come from nothing. Simpe cause and effect is not a fundamental part of physics any more and hasnt been for a hundred years or so. Particles are spontaneously coming into being and being annihilated in their billions every second.

Because the universe is not eternal. God didn't just "happen" he was always there.

Particles are coming into being every second, yes. But because there was preexisting life. The Law of Biogenesis. This only further disproves athiest thinking.

 

[Mescalhead]

Do I believe in a seperate entity called god? No, there would have to be some indiction of this. There is none.

Do I believe in an absolute force that binds all life and is the source of consciousness which I wish to put into some kind of perspective by personifying it and calling it god? No again. This is a bit more believable, but there is no reason to give a mystical, and religious air to something as all-encompassing as this concept claims to cover. Generalizations and absolutions are not accurate, nor are they helpful in putting anything into perspective. I am interested in phenomena, not baseless claims on their mystical realities and absolutist perceptions of their existence.

 

[cgannon64]

Well you either need a theory as to the creation of the universe - or a theory as to the creation of God. The former is easier and there are several good theories.

Physical things require causes, not metaphysical ones.

 

[Perfection]

Physical things require causes

No, they don't.

 

[cgannon64]

Why don't they?

(I saw what col posted, but I'd like it to be explained to me.)