Why do you support gun ownership?

[MobBoss]

Except in New Orleans in the immediate wake of Hurricane Katrina, where police and military were either absent or in the way.

Yup, dont forget, some local police were found looting stores themselves. Nice police force!!

 

[MobBoss]

England and Wales 0.41



See! the UK's getting it right.

Oh really? Then why are they in the top five in violent crime across the world?

People dont have guns to defend themselves thats why.

The fact that I'm 30 times more likely to get shot in the USA than in the UK speaks for itself, IMO.

You are also more likely to be robbed, beaten and left for dead in the UK. I think that says a lot also.

 

[Mise]

You are also more likely to be robbed, beaten and left for dead in the UK. I think that says a lot also.

I hope you have evidence to back that assertion up, otherwise I'll assume you're all hot air.

And being left for dead is still better than actually being dead.

 

[Abaddon]

links please MB... dont just throw your opinions at you when were quoting truths.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I support gun ownership for none of the cited reasons. I support it because in a free society you should be able to own guns, if you chose so.

with gun ownership, however, comes a great deal of responsibility, and if you are found to not fulfill these, you should be punished severely for it (like letting your gun lay around for your kids to find and play with it....)

Things are a little different in Switzerland, aren't they?

 

[Thordin]

I got through 5 pages before I had to post. So if I missed this point made by someone else I am sorry. How many of you have lost a family member by the use of a firearm????? I have!! I lost my 16 year old nephew last year when a punk kid shot him in the back of the head. Because of this I think I can speak to this subject with some perspective.

You can spout all the statistics you would like. Anyone with a high school education should be able to realize that I can make numbers say anything I would like. This kid stole the pistol he used to shoot my nephew. As such he would have got his hands on the pistol even if they were not “legal”.

This situation does not change my belief that we as American citizens have the right to own firearms. My belief is based on if “everyone” has a firearm it will be much more difficult for the government to take over. The government would succeed but at a high cost.

I believe in controls for firearms, such as background checks and limiting the type of weapons a civilian may own.

One point of note on the subject of semi-automatic firearms. All semi-automatic means is that I will fire one round every time I pull the trigger. I own a semi-automatic shotgun. I use it for bird hunting. Propaganda has led you to believe that all semi-automatic weapons are assault rifles.

Thanks for reading my rant. I look forward to seeing your responses.

 

[Abaddon]

but where did he steal it from?

If guns were illegal, how could he have stolen it if theres no guns to steal?
if guns were illegal, would the punk have felt the same way about gun use?

I am sorry for your loss, but im still going to argue my side.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think that people should be 100% responsible for any damage caused by their guns - even if it was stolen. Then we'd see how many guns there were. Of course, no one could afford to be responsible (no fellow is going to be able to pay the millions required if his gun kills a couple people), so there would have to be insurance. Let the insurance companies decide.

i.e., you can own a gun, if you can afford to compensate people for the damage your gun does. Just like with a car.

Again, as a libertarian, I feel that people should be allowed to have guns if they can afford to compensate any victims of their gun ownership. I have house insurance for someone tripping on my stairs. I have car insurance if I hit someone.

Make people have insurance, just like cars. The insurance companies will be able to set a proper fee - commensurate to the risks of having guns in the populace.

 

[El_Machinae]

For all the people supporting 'the populace needs guns to defend itself against the government' ....

When's the last time you morally supported an American who attacked an agent of the government with a gun? "Oh yeah, that meter maid had it coming. We NEED guns to defend ourselves against unjust laws!"

 

[warpus]

If you seriously want to lower gun violence in the United States - you're going to have to get at the root of the problem - and that is a gun culture.

The problem won't dissapear overnight.

 

[IglooDame]

For all the people supporting 'the populace needs guns to defend itself against the government' ....

When's the last time you morally supported an American who attacked an agent of the government with a gun? "Oh yeah, that meter maid had it coming. We NEED guns to defend ourselves against unjust laws!"

Early September of 2005. New Orleans.

 

[Inqvisitor]

For all the people supporting 'the populace needs guns to defend itself against the government' ....

When's the last time you morally supported an American who attacked an agent of the government with a gun? "Oh yeah, that meter maid had it coming. We NEED guns to defend ourselves against unjust laws!"

It is obvious you have no understanding of what "defense against the government" actually means...such sad slaves of the state...

 

[El_Machinae]

Early September of 2005. New Orleans.

Did property owners shoot at agents of the government? I'm curious, so I'm not just saying "prove it" - do you have a story link?

 

[IglooDame]

but where did he steal it from?

If guns were illegal, how could he have stolen it if theres no guns to steal?
if guns were illegal, would the punk have felt the same way about gun use?

I am sorry for your loss, but im still going to argue my side.

I think your assumption that "guns are illegal" = "no guns to steal" is invalid.

 

[MobBoss]

links please MB... dont just throw your opinions at you when were quoting truths.

Sure, there is plenty, but this should be a starter: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1786945,00.html

The study, by the UN’s crime research institute, found that 3 per cent of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2 per cent in America and just 0.1 per cent in Japan, 0.2 per cent in Italy and 0.8 per cent in Austria. In England and Wales the figure was 2.8 per cent.

Your chances of being a victim of assault in England or Wales is more than TWICE that of the USA.

Plenty more of evidence on it on the net. Just google "highest violent crime" and you will see plenty of information.

So much for gun control lowering violent crime.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

The government will know not to mess with the people when they know they have guns. Outside invaders would know not to mess with the people when they know they have guns (it won't be as easy as occupying and capturing an unarmed people). Criminals know not to break into a house when they know they might get shot and killed. Criminals would get weapons anyway, whether you ban them or not. And this is why the Constitution protects your right to own guns.

 

[warpus]

The government will know not to mess with the people when they know they have guns.

Waco anyone?

 

[Mise]

Sure, there is plenty, but this should be a starter: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1786945,00.html



Your chances of being a victim of assault in England or Wales is more than TWICE that of the USA.

Plenty more of evidence on it on the net. Just google "highest violent crime" and you will see plenty of information.

So much for gun control lowering violent crime.

Quote from the same article:

Chief Constable Peter Wilson, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, questioned the figures. “It must be near impossible to compare assault figures from one country to the next based on phone calls,” he said.

Maybe we in the UK are so used to peaceful life that we report any crime as "violent"...

 

[Tenochtitlan]

Waco anyone?

???
Is this a specific incident?
I'm generally speaking, Waco possibly go wrong?

 

[IglooDame]

Did property owners shoot at agents of the government? I'm curious, so I'm not just saying "prove it" - do you have a story link?

I do not. I do know (and it is documented, the officials admitted it) that police forces went about confiscating firearms from residents and homes in New Orleans post-Katrina. I also know that there are a few "cold dead hands" types amongst any group of gun owners, and of those there are probably some that will actually walk the talk, and I figure there were ones in New Orleans that responded that way. However, it would have been so easy to report them as looters, and/or leave their bodies to the floods, that it isn't surprising that such incidents would never become public knowledge.

And if they had met police demands to disarm with gunfire in neighborhoods that were physically livable yet prone to armed looters, then yes, morally I support their decision, even if it wasn't the smartest one they could have made.