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Why don't you like Orbis

Discussion in 'Orbis Modmod' started by Ahwaric, Feb 15, 2010.

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Why don't you like Orbis?

Poll closed Apr 1, 2010.
  1. It is just too weird (changed FfH basics too much)

    13 vote(s)
    16.5%
  2. Not unique enough

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  3. Not enough features

    4 vote(s)
    5.1%
  4. Too many crashes

    14 vote(s)
    17.7%
  5. The economy is not balanced

    15 vote(s)
    19.0%
  6. AI is weak

    26 vote(s)
    32.9%
  7. The guilds are too powerful

    12 vote(s)
    15.2%
  8. OOS and other issues that break multiplayer

    13 vote(s)
    16.5%
  9. Ahwaric, take this pie and a break from modding...

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  10. Other (explained below)

    17 vote(s)
    21.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Seven05

    Seven05 Warmonger

    Joined:
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    Now, had I never read this part I would have never had any intrest in trying Orbis. mainly because "I usually stop my games after renaissance" too :)

    So perhaps something as simple as a nice explanation of what Orbis does and, more importantly, why it does it or what your goals are. Maybe you already have this somewhere but I never found it myself.

    Oh, and if it matters apparently my mapscript will have full native support for Orbis (and Wild Mana, but enough about them) soon as a side effect of adding full native support for RifE, feel free to bug me if there is something you are looking for specifically to help get better worlds for the type of game you expect from Orbis.
     
  2. Dominicius

    Dominicius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    I have already complained about how the bonuses provided from Palace guardian was too powerful.

    I did some modding of my own and removed the % bonus and double fortification bonus, only keeping the +1 bonus to def str. Since palace guardian is a rare enough promotion by itself I allowed it to have this unique benefit.

    Wall Guard (or however it was called) was also changed, the % bonus to combat odds was removed since there was no way you could counter it. I kept first strike bonus (I even upped it by one) and defensive strike since there is a very straightforward way to counter both of these - Blur.

    This has greatly improved my games since I can now efficiently shut down the AIs defenses while still needing to work for it.
    Speaking of the AI, it is weak and still does not declare war on me in my games. Voted as such.
     
  3. Opera

    Opera Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,643
    If it wasn't advertised as an FFH modmod, Orbis would be much more liked. That is because most people expect modmods not to shake what their based on but to expand it; Orbis is very different, especially in design and goal, than FFH, so it is bound to be rather marginalized.

    That's why I decided to stop putting too much effort into a modmod linked to FFH, because I just don't want to create something like FFH, but something different.
     
  4. klaidonis

    klaidonis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I don't like Orbis modmod for the same reason I don't like other FfH-2 modmods: the FfH-2 AI is already so overloaded that it can pursue a military victory only; so I think instead of adding new features it's worth teaching the AI how to use the existing ones better.

    That is why I think only WildMania modmod is really useful, but the best parts of it are regularily merged into the FfH-2.
     
  5. Breez

    Breez Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    924
    I agree

    I tend to think of the various Mod mods not as exspansions of the original but differnt games that have some similairies. FFH2 and AoW2 are similar. they are Turn based with heros and units and cities and magic and elves and dwarves and ... and ... and ... but for all their similarities they are different games. I feel the same way about FFH2, Wildmana, FF, RiFE, and Orbis. All similar but different.
     
  6. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,758
    Location:
    France
    First game in Orbis.. I may be harsh.

    So... I'm lost in the tech tree.
    I have no idea what is different from FFH and what is identical.
    I mean, it seems the same but it is not.
    I think a small guid telling "this works like that" "the spirit of this is that"...Etc would help understanding the way Orbis works.

    I furthermore have an issue of game speed. But I'm not sure it is orbis-related...
    maybe my memory allocation.

    I know I'm only at the beginning so many of the smart and cool thing are not yet here... but due to game-speed issues I 'm not sure I'll pursue playing Orbis until next version, or a new graphical memory...
     
  7. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    771
    One thing that hurt Orbis was the long time between updates.

    I know it can't be helped, but maybe .40 should be beta-ed in?
     
  8. Ahwaric

    Ahwaric Shrubbery-hugger

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,217
    Location:
    Kraków, Poland
    I guess you had the same issue the first time you played FfH, right?

    Orbis is different than FfH, not just a small modmod that changes a couple of things. In fact, I am going to advertise Orbis 1.0 as a separate mod using the same setting and FfH codebase. While there are things that I kept from FfH (and many of them), it is best assume that most things are different. I might simply rename everything, but that would not be fair as some things did not change. So I rename just the most changed things - as I did with Octopus overlords in 1.0.

    I know that will not appeal to everyone, but I like the changes and hope some people like them too.
    As I said many times, I do not have time to play FfH anymore, but while testing it did not seem that much faster compared to Orbis. And compared to RifE... :mischief: (sorry Valkrionn, won't do it again)
    I know that might seem long, but last patch to Orbis was released in december. Then I had some RL things I really had to do first. So even new patches would have to wait 2 months.

    Orbis 0.30 is development codename, I will release it as 1.0.
    There are a lot of new things (standalone installer with reviewed art, new religion, new mercenary system, 2 new civs - to name just a few). I am going to release it next weekend (I hope).
    Is it that much more than it took FfH team to release new versions?
     
  9. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    771
    Yeah, I do understand the long time and the reasonings, but it just seems long due to the other mods updating more frequently.

    This might all me moot in a few months, since then FFH Civ V will start (or it might move to EWOM, who knows)
     
  10. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    Hehe, that's fine. We're hoping to improve speed quite a bit with the next version. ;)

    Other mods don't really update any more frequently. Well, Sephi may, but Wild Mana is still relatively new. All of the 'older' modmods tend to take a while before a new version, aside from rapid bug patching.

    Also... I really don't think there will be an FfH for Civ V unless one of the modmodders makes it. So no, it won't all be moot. ;)
     
  11. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
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    1,337
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    Vancouver, WA
    Besides it might be awhile before Civ V is playable. I know it was VERY jarring for me to go from the deep richness of Civ III's mod Rise and Rule mod (similar to Civ IV's Rise of Mankind) and then start playing vanilla Civ IV. I mean going from Frigates directly to Battleships again was not fun. So I would think that till the modder community stepped up, a lot of people will be playing Civ IV mods for a long time after Civ V comes out.

    BTW, I haven't heard...there is a Civ V schedule for a semi-soon beta release? I hadn't even heard that they were even developing it?
     
  12. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
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    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
  13. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

    Joined:
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    1,337
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    (sigh) From the looks of things I guess I'm going to end up playing "Total War" whether I like it or not. Man I hate being an old school game who doesn't WANT to see all my armies graphically fighting it out like so many other games like Total War. If I did, I would, you know PLAY TOTAL WAR INSTEAD OF CIV! :mad:

    I wish the designers would realize a lot of us old school types play Civ BECAUSE it is a "God Game" and not just a combat game w/lots of bells and whistles.

    But I guess my demographics don't count and I'll quit cluttering up this forum with my whining.

    Although it is a valid argument when discussing mods when I think about it. (Especially since it gives me a break from doing homework about the criminal code surrounding child rape :eek:) I mean instead of why do you like or dislike about Orbis, maybe a better one would be, why do you play it? I mean I dislike a lot of mods simply because it seems towards the end of the game it just devolves into a slug match. At least in FfH and all its mods, there are actually multiple ways to win that actually work.

    I mean I must say I like fending off the slavering hordes and then beat them to death with my culture or building my Tower of Mastery. :D
     
  14. iffi

    iffi Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
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    111
    Location:
    Helsinki
    Orbis has been my only mod since I found it last summer. Haven't tried Wildmana, RiFe is sadly unplayable with my laptop.

    Everything seems to flow smoothly and things are balanced, even with all the added features. This is what separates this mod from the others. New content never causes unsmoothines, and even more unbeleavably, there are no excessive bling or useless additions.

    The sad thing with new features in general is that they make the AI more lost. The more features, the more lost. A snowball-effect.

    One particular thing I notice is that AI keeps juggling its tile improvements all the time. Yurts and farms seem to be very popular.

    Another is that AI offensive armies are non-existent. Maybe its due to Tiny Tectonic maps. I'm not that worried about it, as I'm more of a builder. AI defense is good, but Blur is unstoppable as it nullifies both first and defensive strikes. Rust is a must agains iron-age civs. On the other hand, without these two city cracking could be frustrating. It seems I use Mages only when I play Amurites. Totem-buffed units are more attractive. Maybe Wild Haven should not give totems to all unit types?
     
  15. Schwarzbart

    Schwarzbart Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Also dont miss that parts of this mod end up inside of other mods and this is even a biger indicator that you done it right. (I.e. parts of Orbis are in RIFE)
    So dont be worry to much about how much people like your mod important is if you like your own mod.
     
  16. Jennvare

    Jennvare Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    371
    Sup guys,

    Played my first game on Warlord Difficulty with the Scions.

    First thing I ran into was a CTD that kept happening every 6-10 turns after a reload. I started saving after every turn and was able to progress, but a consistent CTD really kills your enjoyment very quickly. I did load the saved game in the bug thread if you wish to take a look at it.

    The crash seems to always happen when I am cycling through my cities setting production and always after I select something to build / produce. I dont think its my system since I play other mods without crashing (granted turn timers get extensive in late gameplay in those). In any case, try the save game I loaded up.

    The other thing I noticed though while I was still able to play, the AI in the game was not very aggressive and didnt build up very well. I could have easily steamrolled them if I wanted to, but there wouldnt have been much point except dragging the game out longer. It wouldnt even have been a challenge.

    I'll try some other games and see what else I notice. It simply could have been that i got off to a great start in that game.

    Keep up the good work though. One request I would like to make though...with the great generals, can you implement a system for great generals similar to Fall Further? I like the thought of a general leading a group of troops instead of just one unit and gaining experience on the exploits of his soldiers. Think you could do something like that?

    Just a thought!
     
  17. Legba

    Legba Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    58
    I absolutely love Orbis. Orbis having espionage was definately a deal breaker. I am also a fan of the new tech tree. Orbis also does barbarians right; just enough to make them a nusance that you must prepare for but not a ridiculous amounts of very strong barbs like they are in some other mods I've played. The best part of all is that I have never experienced a crash with Orbis, though I've only played through a few games.

    A couple things that I do miss from playing RiFE for awhile is the ability to make improvements without having to research the tech. I liked this idea as it didn't really force me to have to go for all the basic improvement techs first and I could go for a religion or an early war tech. I also miss some of the content like the White Hand religion and a couple of the Civs I really enjoyed (D'Tesh!!)
     
  18. Randomness

    Randomness ...

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    It's not a dislike of Orbis. RiFE is just better :)
     
  19. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    No, RifE is just different. Both are good. :splat:
     
  20. Dominicius

    Dominicius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    You do realize that the combat in Civ4 is probably the worst aspect of the game, right?

    Them replacing it with anything will likely be better than what we currently have.
     

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