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Why don't you like Orbis

Discussion in 'Orbis Modmod' started by Ahwaric, Feb 15, 2010.

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Why don't you like Orbis?

Poll closed Apr 1, 2010.
  1. It is just too weird (changed FfH basics too much)

    13 vote(s)
    16.5%
  2. Not unique enough

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  3. Not enough features

    4 vote(s)
    5.1%
  4. Too many crashes

    14 vote(s)
    17.7%
  5. The economy is not balanced

    15 vote(s)
    19.0%
  6. AI is weak

    26 vote(s)
    32.9%
  7. The guilds are too powerful

    12 vote(s)
    15.2%
  8. OOS and other issues that break multiplayer

    13 vote(s)
    16.5%
  9. Ahwaric, take this pie and a break from modding...

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  10. Other (explained below)

    17 vote(s)
    21.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Brugarin

    Brugarin Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    151
    I haven't played the other modmods for a while. I've played Fall Further and some other one, i can't remember now, but i liked Orbis in a way that it seemed to be a bit more elegant. I don't know, i just like it, even thow at emperor difficulty i fell like playing alone, the AI just stands no chance against me...

    Oh and i really enjoy playing the lizards! It would be so cool to have them in FFH too! :D
     
  2. jeffreyac

    jeffreyac Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    626
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    OK, let me chime in with my first real play attempt here. I'm somewhat familiar with FfH2, and have played the wildmana and RiFE mods a few times each - so I'm no expert, but I'm familiar with the concepts.

    Many of these observations stem from something I'd mentioned earlier - with limited documentation, I'm not always sure, with a change, if it's working as intended or if it's something that is a little ... strange. The building units woth food thing I get now (thanks for the quick explanation - I hadn't seen that before, as I didn't look closely enough at the civics choices!) but I imagine several of these are similar in that there are perfectly good explamations, I'm just not familiar enough to know how the system works yet!

    Anyway, here are the observations I had from my first try:

    -I mentioned the difficulty I had adjusting to unit production - maybe I'll have to try again and see how soon I can get out of my initial civics. Until then, I found this made it feel like my early growth was slowed as I had to choose between units and city growth (and I realize this was probably what was intended here!) I just wonder how the AI handles it - does the AI understand the new civics? I noticed even with slow growth, I was still #2 on the largest civs chart, and I hadn't really been trying too hard to expand...

    - My balseraphs warriors capture slaves, without slavery? is this right? (Maybe it is, as I see they can be added to the freak show...)

    - Having so many resources available is almost distracting. I had a decent sized continent, all to myself, and I don't think there was any square where I could have placed a city that didn't have 2 or 3 resources in the fat cross. So many kind of makes them less interesting - normally I pay close attention to placement, to grab resources as best I can. After my second city, I stopped trying so hard; there were so many out there it seemed pointless to try to plan city placement for resources. All in all, realy made the individual resources seem far ess important - and allowed for some pretty silly health and happiness bonuses; after I did get my capital growing it had some pretty hefty happy/health caps for so early in the game.

    - Got an event: 50% damage from unwholesome addiiction? why? caused by what? (just a warrior, on a hill...) Random events I understand - they're random by nature. But this seemed a little frustrating, as I kept wondering what I did to trigger that, and there was no way of knowing.

    -griffon nest spawns in sight, right next to border? early enough that all I have are warriors - 2 of them, each with a <.1 chance of victory? well, they're not entering my borders - guess I'll have to see how they work when I get my hunters up. (never did; see below)

    - On a forested hills tile, i've got mining. Why can't I build a mine? (Can build a farm, quarry, or chop...) Chopped forest - still can't mine. Looks like quarry is the same idea?

    Finally, as I thought I was getting the hang of it (about 250 turns in on a marathon speed game), got a unexpected crash to desktop. No save file available (I think; I could check the autosaves) so no idea what caused it. Hadn't built any new units or tried anything different, so I don't think it was one of my actions, but other than that I have no idea...


    Anyway, my final feel is that it's pretty easy to get overwhelmed by all the changes (tech tree, civics, mechanics, resources). Documentation would fix some of this - but, honestly, I came away from that attempt feeling like there was almost too much in there (especialy in the resource department...) This is a wierd thing for me to say, as normaly I'm a big fan of new additions and new content - but it almost feels like Orbis goes too far with new stuff (at least, for my tastes...) But, then again, my first play got stopped early - I'll probably need to give it another try to be fair... :)
     
  3. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    Just answering the ones that I know about, as some aren't bugs:

    Unwholesome Addiction is caused by Haunted Lands, it's not a random effect.

    In FF/RifE/Orbis animals/barbs can spawn in visible territory, just not in owned territory (unless they are peaceful with the owner, so barbs in Clan lands and animals in Doviello lands).

    Mines work differently in Orbis; Only on resources. Quarries are used as the base production improvement instead.
     
  4. orthus

    orthus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    just a few words:
    orbis is very great and funny, maybe the best mod for civ4

    but some negativ aspects:
    nearly everthing is overpowered: heros ( unit finding toys in dungeons :D ) from turn 10 will raze your neighbours, archers gain far to many xp (limited to max 1 xp should be enough and not up to 12 !!! points per shot, the KI doesnot use it's abilities ( e.g. to build cottages in forest),and the guilds...:lol:

    i played a huge map with the mazatl on immortal, but now in turn 300 ( 1.2 mio points!) it crashed serveral times per turn; very bad as i intented to get 2 million points for victory, but it is too boring with all the crashes.

    i also tried wild mana, but hmmm....still under construction and not playable
     
  5. Kalina

    Kalina Just lurking...

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    511
    Location:
    Łódź, Poland
    From turn 10 ? You found one in dungeon, right ? It's luck-based, shouldn't happen next time ;)


    Are you getting MAF crashes or other ones ? If MAF (some popup says something about memory) it might be because of huge map. It's rather Civ4 error, not Orbis or FfH one. Try playing smaller maps or with less civs.
    Also, if you have more that 2 gb of RAM, you might try one of those 'solutions', depending on your OS. Somehow it helps a little ;)

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224178
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=225205
     
  6. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,956
    Location:
    St.Petersburg, Russian Federation
    A lot of OOS in early game, like every turn after 100 turns. I really enjoy FFH2 multiplayer and i would like to be able to play Orbis this way :).
     
  7. Jarrema

    Jarrema Master Voter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,196
    Location:
    At home
    I love Orbis...
    But from other side, it is VERY frustrating.
    Why?
    Because, as a new player, knowing only "vanilla" FFH, I do not understand more than 50% of things that happen in the game... In this very thread are good examples of what I mean.
    So, in my opinion, main things lacking in Orbis are detailed civilopedia and manual... THEN (and, sorry, only then) it would be THE BEST MOD EVER
     
  8. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Eh? What about "Orbis Concepts"? Sure they may need some work, but I've learned during 4 games. Still more pedia wouldn't hurt, but you usually have to do it by yourself or recruit some from forums because modmakers usually are busy with a "coding" stuff so you have to learn from your own faults...

    Orthus, please do not confuse people. XP from ranged bombardment was already removed a few versions ago.

    I have to disagree here. Some events are quite strong, but such are the great priest/engineer events in Vanilla too. And Palace defense, and Rock-paper-scissors mechanics and a balanced tech tree overall lead to a more balanced gameplay.

    If you read "Survival" civic description, it makes you to produce units with food and gives 10% chance to capture a slave. That confused me too first time I played.
     
  9. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    I just started this past week and honestly my big problem thus far is the excessive prevalence of swamps. I've tried several different map types and settings, and even on more arid maps I always seem to start out hemmed in with swamps. I haven't been able to stick with a game long enough to figure out if there is a way to get rid of them.
    I started a game yesterday on Great Plains and just used worldbuilder to replace all the nearby swamps with forests, but then I got a python exception crash at turn 64. Maybe it was just a fluke so I will give it another shot.
     
  10. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

    Joined:
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    You can get rid of them really fast, workers have "drain swamp" action.
     
  11. Kalina

    Kalina Just lurking...

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    511
    Location:
    Łódź, Poland
    Only after Construction, IIRC. So not so early ;)
     
  12. Imuratep

    Imuratep Cultist of the Old Ones

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    Germany
    Yeah and once you do it you have very good terrain below it that provides 3 :food: (Except if this was changed).
     
  13. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    You rush Construction anyway to get that early Great Engineer before AI, so I don't think it's a problem :).
     
  14. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    OK, that's good to know. Although when I went back to the game I had another python exception crash about 20 turns later, so I'm on the fence with whether I will stick with it.
     
  15. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3,649
    Well, I will be honest with you. I like Orbis but there is just one thing about it that is bugging me.

    The one thing I dislike is, and now this might be wrong since its my personal impression but Orbis is different from all other FFH mods in that unlike the others who always seek to add 'MORE' it seems to prefer 'LESS'.

    Or to put it short, Orbis just has or seems to have far less features than RifE and at times it seems that even vanilla FF has more features.

    The thing is, while a lot of the core mechanics have been changed you don't have 30+ factions, the 20+ custom game options and all the things like that.
    Also, you did some renaming and merging of factions that I personally think goes against the lore. (*ehem* Lizardmen)


    You see, when ever I turn on FF, I look at it and feel like a little child holding a thin skinned, overly filled bag of candy that is threatening to burst and spill out all over the street if I don't eat it right away. I start to shiver. I look at it with my gluttonous eyes and my hands start to sweat as they reach on their own for the piece on top.

    Now Orbis is a good mod. It is a really good mod. Its probably one of the better FFH mods.
    But it just lacks that special something. That magical spark of Nemed, that unique touch of Mammon that makes me sweat and forces my arms reach out to grab it.
    Its just not there.
     
  16. Imuratep

    Imuratep Cultist of the Old Ones

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    IMHO this philosophy is great. Instead of adding MOAR stuff just for having more, everything has a purpose and is balanced. FF has changed a lot since a year but up to then it had a lot bland stuff that did not contribute a lot to the game experience. The Dural have gotten better with their lategame religious buildings. But the Chislev and the Austrin IMHO still are quite boring - nothing compared to the awsomeness FFH civs usually provide. New units with another name and slightly other stats don't change anything. It is changing the way economy works what makes a game different - and that is what Orbis does.
     
  17. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
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    I rather agree with you about the Dural (Though as of last night, we have a mechanic for them now. :p), but the Austrin are awesome; Ability to construct a ritual allowing a recon unit to create a city (more expensive than a settler, but better IMO), and no maintenance costs from distance to the palace? It seems a simple thing, but it radically changes the way you can play the game; More than enough to be engaging IMO.

    I do agree though, Ahwaric does a good job of refining things.

    Speaking of which... As I'm posting in the Orbis forum anyway, I have a question for you Ahwaric. Would you mind if we merge Thudr? Due to a new mechanic I can't discuss publicly (PM me or request access to the Team Forum! :p), we're trying for at least one Major, one Minor, and one Emergent leader per civilization. I know you love Thudr, so I'd honestly like to incorporate him as a salute to Orbis. :goodjob:
     
  18. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

    Joined:
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    I can't disagree more. Here is what I wrote about this on my Main Download Thread:

    It applies fairly well here.

    Again, I must emphasize three major factors, content, customizability, and uniqueness. Orbis has this doubly hard since it has to compete with FF, Rife and Wildmana.
     
  19. Imuratep

    Imuratep Cultist of the Old Ones

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    Yeah forgot about that ritual. It's quite cool. But like the change with reduced maintenance for distance it is a change from the last year when there seemed to be a change in philosophy/ in quality. During this single year all the new civs have been made more interesting (beyond creating just flavor mechanics) (apart from Chislev. They still are kinda boring). I also liked playing FF up till then but I often considered the new civs to be unpolished and unfinished. Probably MOAR really can be a good basis for creative design, but the step of polishing the new ideas has to be done at some time.
    And you can't say that Orbis is too similar to base FFH. For me it plays a lot different to base FFH while the other mods like Wildmana feel more like base FFH. The only thing I really miss in Orbis are the uber Apocalyptic Horsemen. I had a lot of fun games with them in FF when I defended my cities with nothing but hundreds of Gretchins :D.
     
  20. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    That part I completely agree with; It's also what we're trying to do in RifE atm. ;)

    Honestly, Orbis is the most different of all the modmods; Which is a good thing, as some people want something radically different.
     

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