Why feel sorry for bankrupts?

[kochman]

3/4 of a million Americans are forced into bankruptcy every year by health care costs that they cannot afford to pay. And these are people with assets and insurance, just not enough for a critical injury or illness.

Source?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Source?

Just google 'bankruptcy health care costs' and the number 60-68% of bankruptices stat comes up from several sources. Then google to find the number of bankruptcies (1.5 mil in 2010). This shows 1 million.

How many of those had 'assets and insurance' is unknown. Or how many of those it was that the health care costs were merely the 'straw that broke the camel's back' situation (they eventually would have filed bankruptcy later due to other reasons and debts, or they had so many loans for other stuff they were just paying interest on those other loans and just barely getting by.

 

[kochman]

Just google 'bankruptcy health care costs' and the number 60-68% of bankruptices stat comes up from several sources. Then google to find the number of bankruptcies (1.5 mil in 2010). This shows 1 million.

How many of those had 'assets and insurance' is unknown. Or how many of those it was that the health care costs were merely the 'straw that broke the camel's back' situation (they eventually would have filed bankruptcy later due to other reasons and debts, or they had so many loans for other stuff they were just paying interest on those other loans and just barely getting by.

Could you please re-word that... the first paragraph is confusing.

I mean, from those stats, it could be, as you mention, the straw that broke the camels back, according to the survey... HC could have been a small portion compared to other, unnecessary expenditures.

Not saying it isn't true... just looking for a solid source.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Could you please re-word that... the first paragraph is confusing.

I mean, from those stats, it could be, as you mention, the straw that broke the camels back, according to the survey... HC could have been a small portion compared to other, unnecessary expenditures.

Not saying it isn't true... just looking for a solid source.

I'm saying if you use the 60-68% (of bankruptcies 'caused' by health expenses) of the 1.5 million figure (total of all bankruptcies) then you would arrive at about 1 million that were 'caused' by health care. That's higher than the 3/4 million that was posted earlier, but that earlier figure could have been outdated.

I agree that there using that number and blaming it all on health expenses is misleading as for some of those cases there could have been other reasons for the bankruptcy, since health expenses was just one of their debts.

Using my earlier example, if someone has 10k in debt to the hospital, the hospital will accept a payment plan. But if the person is already paying off loans for a motorcycle, a boat and credit card payments then getting the medical bill breaks their budget that they were just barely getting by with.

 

[kochman]

Yeah... so, a better statement would be... 750000 americans go bankrupt in part to health care expenses...

The fact that all these house went completely underwater also led a LOT of people to choose bankruptcy. They get to live in their house mortgage payment free for years, because the banks are so backed up on foreclosures... and then they no longer have to worry about an underwater house.
Optional bankruptcy is a big thing in the USA.

 

[timtofly]

Yeah... so, a better statement would be... 750000 americans go bankrupt in part to health care expenses...

The fact that all these house went completely underwater also led a LOT of people to choose bankruptcy. They get to live in their house mortgage payment free for years, because the banks are so backed up on foreclosures... and then they no longer have to worry about an underwater house.
Optional bankruptcy is a big thing in the USA.

Are you sure about this?

Maybe a year, from experience, you can walk away, that means leave the house behind, or you can go through bankruptacy and keep the house, but you still have to pay the mortgage.

Forclosures are backed up in the "clearing" process, but the police are "happy" to escort free-loaders from bank owned property.

 

[emzie]

Are you sure about this?

Maybe a year, from experience, you can walk away, that means leave the house behind, or you can go through bankruptacy and keep the house, but you still have to pay the mortgage.

Forclosures are backed up in the "clearing" process, but the police are "happy" to escort free-loaders from bank owned property.

Until the house has been foreclosed upon, what legal right do the police have to remove the occupant?

 

[kochman]

Are you sure about this?

Maybe a year, from experience, you can walk away, that means leave the house behind, or you can go through bankruptacy and keep the house, but you still have to pay the mortgage.

Forclosures are backed up in the "clearing" process, but the police are "happy" to escort free-loaders from bank owned property.

I work in real estate... 3 years is a guesstimate, but generally well over a year. I've also known many who've been doing it. A colleague of mine had a house in another city that went underwater when he moved here... 4 years later, still in his name.

At some point the banks actually come and change the locks, but it takes a while.

And yes, you can go through bankruptcy and keep your house, depending.

 

[timtofly]

Until the house has been foreclosed upon, what legal right do the police have to remove the occupant?

Banks are really funny that way, they hate to loose money, but they hate people who take advantage of them even more. In some places vandels have stripped the house of a lot of valuable plumbing, because they can, since no one cares about the property itself, but the fact that someone defaulted and has to pay for doing so.

Maybe I just live in a bad area, but that is what I see going on around where I live.

Thanks kochman. I know that it takes a while to "clear" the title, but like I said in my area, everything is just sitting empty, and a lot of times stripped.

 

[JollyRoger]

How about strategic default? Over in the US, it seems to have become a national sport to default on your mortgage because it's "under water", not because you can't service the debt or the personal value of the house to its owners has changed. Should you be able to default just because the market price for your house has gone down?

Absolutely - it is a business contract, not a marriage. Unless the noteholder chain really screwed up, you will take a hit on your credit as a consequence, but the contract was written by the lender and it contains page after page of what happens if you choose not to pay - the possibility ofyou not paying was bargained for in detail. The noteholder gets the property and if they take a bath, they should have been more prudent before beoming the holder of a note secured by the property.

Banks and businesses default on their contracts all the time if it makes economic sense. An individual borrower should feel free to play by the same rules without any sense of moral guilt.

 

[kochman]

Banks are really funny that way, they hate to loose money, but they hate people who take advantage of them even more. In some places vandels have stripped the house of a lot of valuable plumbing, because they can, since no one cares about the property itself, but the fact that someone defaulted and has to pay for doing so.

Maybe I just live in a bad area, but that is what I see going on around where I live.

Thanks kochman. I know that it takes a while to "clear" the title, but like I said in my area, everything is just sitting empty, and a lot of times stripped.

Oh, yes, the stripping goes down... big time. Copper pipes, A/C units, etc... anything that can be moved.
A lot of folks also move out on their own, not realizing that they can remain in the place! So, sometimes, the places are vacant, and the bank hasn't taken them yet. Or the owners may live elsewhere and not want to rent out to someone to then have the bank tell them... "time to go".
These are the worst cases... at least once the banks get them, they have someone come by and do lawn maintenance and make sure the property is secure on a semi-regular basis (just enough to stay within code, regarding grass length).

 

[Patroklos]

Just google 'bankruptcy health care costs' and the number 60-68% of bankruptices stat comes up from several sources. Then google to find the number of bankruptcies (1.5 mil in 2010). This shows 1 million.

How many of those had 'assets and insurance' is unknown. Or how many of those it was that the health care costs were merely the 'straw that broke the camel's back' situation (they eventually would have filed bankruptcy later due to other reasons and debts, or they had so many loans for other stuff they were just paying interest on those other loans and just barely getting by.

The second paragraph is the key to that statistic. People will do the exact same thing with mortgage payments, both will claim the same number using the same people depending on what they want the "cause" of bankruptcies to be.

 

[JollyRoger]

There really should be no shame to bankruptcy for Americans - it made it into the Constitution from the start and was not an add-on like the right to free speech or the right to bear arms.

 

[classical_hero]

Yes (I promise I was on CFC and my flat mate had it on) , and thus am far more entitled to sympathy than a bankrupt . What a god awful show.

This is how the show should get edited.

Link to video.

 

[aelf]

Sure, because of health expenses one may feel sorry for someone in bankruptcy, but what if it's because they didn't have 10k for the health procedure because they spent 30k on a motorcyle, a boat and trips to disneyland, etc.

So in the USA you better save up 10k to prepare medical emergencies before spending money on a motorcycle and Disneyland? I see.

 

[Mise]

A motorcycle and a trip to Disneyland costs 30k in America?


Sent from a phone, apols for any mistakes.

 

[Core Imposter]

So in the USA you better save up 10k to prepare medical emergencies before spending money on a motorcycle and Disneyland? I see.

It is called personal responsibility. One of the pillars of the old, greater USA.

 

[Samson]

So in the USA you better save up 10k to prepare medical emergencies before spending money on a motorcycle and Disneyland? I see.

It is called personal responsibility. One of the pillars of the old, greater USA.

Is that a yes? And you think that is a recipe for a successful economy?

 

[Cutlass]

It is called personal responsibility. One of the pillars of the old, greater USA.

Yes, the 1940s through the 1970s, when the US was at its best, personal responsibility was strongest, and liberals were unchallenged. As opposed to the rejection of personal responsibility that came with the turn towards conservatism with the Reagan Revolution and the slowing of the economy that resulted.

 

[Bamspeedy]

So in the USA you better save up 10k to prepare medical emergencies before spending money on a motorcycle and Disneyland? I see.

Hospitals accept payment plans. But kind of hard to make those payments if you are paying loans on several other things you didn't really need (boat, motorcycle, credit cards from various misc stuff) and a house that is 'bigger than you can afford'.

Someone has all that debt, which one was 'the cause' of the bankruptcy? Just the hospital bill because that is the one most convenient to lay the blame on?

A motorcycle and a trip to Disneyland costs 30k in America?


Sent from a phone, apols for any mistakes.

How do you get 30k out of what I said. Or are you talking about some amount of debt needed to meet bankruptcy requirements? (in which case I had no idea there was any such requirements).