Why is CIV4 still the best civ game?

[krasny]

I'd say it's because IV gets the balance right between simulation and boardgame. Plus best diplomacy.

 

[kiwitt]

Because I am still modding and playing it today ... such longevity!

 

[Core Imposter]

Fired up a game the other night and promptly lost to the raging barbarians. The opening of Civ 4 is just magical. If you commit to not reloading the game is just edge of your seat. Not so much a sandbox but a coffin. Newbies do not accidentally stumble into a win on deity in Civ IV, or even a couple of levels of difficulty lower.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Fired up a game the other night and promptly lost to the raging barbarians. The opening of Civ 4 is just magical. If you commit to not reloading the game is just edge of your seat. Not so much a sandbox but a coffin. Newbies do not accidentally stumble into a win on deity in Civ IV, or even a couple of levels of difficulty lower.

I like it because, intentionally or not, it recreates the feeling that a 4000BC human probably felt: everything is dangerous, you don't know who's next door, you have no idea what your world looks like, where resources are, and you're just concerned with making it to the next turn for survival.

 

[AspiringScholar]

I like it because, intentionally or not, it recreates the feeling that a 4000BC human probably felt: everything is dangerous, you don't know who's next door, you have no idea what your world looks like, where resources are, and you're just concerned with making it to the next turn for survival.

Absolutely this! Though I think Realism Invictus greatly polishes and enhances this element, that never really goes away but the form it takes feels authentic to the prominent themes of each era as they approximate the dilemmas of real history.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I like it because, intentionally or not, it recreates the feeling that a 4000BC human probably felt: everything is dangerous, you don't know who's next door, you have no idea what your world looks like, where resources are, and you're just concerned with making it to the next turn for survival.

If I'm not mistaken, Civ4 is the only civ game where your early explorers are threatened by wild animals. This contributes a lot to that feeling of being "in the wild", that any places outside your first settlement is unsafe. It makes things more immersive right from start.

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

Don‘t want to crash the party, but a few months ago i said i would try Civ4… ok, this post will get no likes, but that doesn’t matter right?

Civ4 is unplayable for me. It‘s because of the graphics. I‘m a person that think graphics are important (our type of games are called „videogames“ for a reason, basically the eyes are also eating the meal). I don‘t want to say that Civ4 is a bad game, how could i? But i‘m saying this game, today, is unplayable for me, because of the outdated graphics. Although Civ4, gameplay-wise is certainly a great game, but i think you understand me (it‘s unplayable in 2025 for me, but not bad). I also can‘t understand why everyone loves „Baba Yetu“… i don‘t like it. I prefer Civ5‘s Brave new World „Terra Nova“, but i think even Civ5 is unplayable today… for me.

I have a background as Hobby-Artist as a musician and 3D Artist, not as a programmer or something, maybe this has something to do with it, but who knows.

Anyways, just wanted to keep my „promise“ from a few months ago, someone here said he / she would be interested in what i think… i believe it was @Marla_Singer ?

It‘s just not my game, not in 2025, but i hope y‘all still have fun with it.

 

[AspiringScholar]

Don‘t want to crash the party, but a few months ago i said i would try Civ4… ok, this post will get no likes, but that doesn’t matter right?

Civ4 is unplayable for me. It‘s because of the graphics. I‘m a person that think graphics are important (our type of games are called „videogames“ for a reason, basically the eyes are also eating the meal). I don‘t want to say that Civ4 is a bad game, how could i? But i‘m saying this game, today, is unplayable for me, because of the outdated graphics. Although Civ4, gameplay-wise is certainly a great game, but i think you understand me (it‘s unplayable in 2025 for me, but not bad). I also can‘t understand why everyone loves „Baba Yetu“… i don‘t like it. I prefer Civ5‘s Brave new World „Terra Nova“, but i think even Civ5 is unplayable today… for me.

I have a background as Hobby-Artist as a musician and 3D Artist, not as a programmer or something, maybe this has something to do with it, but who knows.

Anyways, just wanted to keep my „promise“ from a few months ago, someone here said he / she would be interested in what i think… i believe it was @Marla_Singer ?

It‘s just not my game, not in 2025, but i hope y‘all still have fun with it.

I actually love these graphics: the pastel, colored pencil UI art and the warm and lively main map. Everything feels alive, vibrant, and clean with respect to the information it communicates for the sake of still being a deep strategy game underneath. I was a tween/teen when Civ IV was the "new" Civ though, so I am biased and partial to it. Still have trouble seeing why people could prefer any later title to this, though, which looks more polished and modern and less cartoony and abstracted than V, VI, or VII:

 

[TheBirdMan]

Still have trouble seeing why people could prefer any later title to this,

Remember AS, that there is a huge difference between the Civ4/Civ4_BtS versions and the one you and I play, namely the Civ4/BtS/Realism:Invictus version (you are even using the SVN updates which I do not have access to unless I upgrade my WIN7 to at least WIN10). If I only had the original Civ4/BtS version available, I would probably not be playing this game at all.

A little info for those, who do not know much about the RI version. Last version is ver. 3.72c from Feb 2025. Next release will probably be in Dec 2025 shortly before Xmas. The SVN update is the current Developers_Build - open for testing and for serious suggestions.......

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

I actually love these graphics: the pastel, colored pencil UI art and the warm and lively main map. Everything feels alive, vibrant, and clean with respect to the information it communicates for the sake of still being a deep strategy game underneath. I was a tween/teen when Civ IV was the "new" Civ though, so I am biased and partial to it. Still have trouble seeing why people could prefer any later title to this, though, which looks more polished and modern and less cartoony and abstracted than V, VI, or VII:

I‘m glad that you like Civ4, also the graphics. I just can‘t.
In the 90‘s when i was a child, i used to play Command&Conquer 1, and loved it, i still think it‘s a great game, but unplayable for me in 2025. Can‘t do anything about that.

 

[Sephi]

I actually love these graphics: the pastel, colored pencil UI art and the warm and lively main map. Everything feels alive, vibrant, and clean with respect to the information it communicates for the sake of still being a deep strategy game underneath. I was a tween/teen when Civ IV was the "new" Civ though, so I am biased and partial to it. Still have trouble seeing why people could prefer any later title to this, though, which looks more polished and modern and less cartoony and abstracted than V, VI, or VII:

Couldn't agree more. For me personally modded CIV4 is still the goat when it comes to historical 4x. I discovered Realism Invictus mod last year and that one feels like CIV4 + all the things improved by Civ5-7 but implemented in an even better game. Civs for example get unique stuff throughout the whole game, but there is no enforced civ switching or era resets. Warfare is more tactical without artifical 1upt rules or archers shooting accross lakes. But for new civ players it's probably too rough, I had Shaka as my neighbour and he was a real menace . Newers civs are more of a cosy chill simcivilisation experience where the AI is either unwilling or too incompetent to take a single city from a player.

 

[AspiringScholar]

Couldn't agree more. For me personally modded CIV4 is still the goat when it comes to historical 4x. I discovered Realism Invictus mod last year and that one feels like CIV4 + all the things improved by Civ5-7 but implemented in an even better game. Civs for example get unique stuff throughout the whole game, but there is no enforced civ switching or era resets. Warfare is more tactical without artifical 1upt rules or archers shooting accross lakes. But for new civ players it's probably too rough, I had Shaka as my neighbour and he was a real menace . Newers civs are more of a cosy chill simcivilisation experience where the AI is either unwilling or too incompetent to take a single city from a player.

Yes, this mod is an undersung giant among historical strategy games that perhaps one day will gain the widespread recognition it merits. I think it's a matter of Civ IV's somewhat limited old player-base being the only ones even consciously aware of mods for the game existing to any significant degree, but having myself played later titles, it still feels more modernized and serious than any of them, and graphically more impressive and contemporary than any of its competition. Walter Hawkwood deserves singular recognition and credit for its curation and internally consistent "spirit" and quality as a mod.

 

[JDCP]

It‘s because of the graphics

Heh, I must admit it they're pretty ugly, but the artstyle and details are what makes it appealing. I loaded into an old save file so you can have a look on your own:

That might not be cute but it's certainly AWESOME to look at (this is from a mod but meh, same thing). I don't know, but I think CIV4 graphics have the same charm as to why the game itself is so good: It's a simple game even a 5 year old can play, but it's got enough detail and cohesion that it's enjoyable. As a kid I was blown away looking at the airships, leaderheads or wonders and I really couldn't believe there was a game that would let me play in a world where you could have knights fighting in the grasslands and by the next day you could be nuking cities. I got some of my best friends and even chicks to play this thing, it's a blast and I'm yet to meet a game like this, which probably never happen considering this kind of game has become some sort of lost art.

BTW for RI players around here: Can you believe I managed to get that many early wonders in Monarch? Arab World Map start is a breeze!

 

[P&nny]

If I remember correctly, during Civ5 development, Jon Schafer was actually bothered by the clogging issue that generates 1UPT in a Civilization context with only a few tiles between cities. I remember having read that he explored multiple solutions such as subdividing tiles in smaller tiles for unit moves or even entirely getting rid of tiles to make the game gridless, yet that last option didn't work because the player was losing the sense of scale. I don't remember why he hasn't retained the subdivision idea, maybe because that's much harder to do with hexes (you can divide a square in smaller squares, but you can't divide a hex in smaller hexes). The solution finally adopted by Firaxis was to drastically limit the production of units compared to Civ4, but from my understanding that wasn't Schafer's initial plan and he wasn't satisfied about it.

I had quite a few ideas when I read this message a while back (probably at the time you wrote it). And I had put it on my to do list to create some option in my MOD which explored some of the solution here discussed (mostly page 7).
Namely to try to have the X-UPT rather than 1-UPT solution.
Where X would be dependent on evoluing things like the era you're in.

In the end I settled for this :
Fix amount of units on a tile (2) + Amount extra by era discovered (2) + Additional for in city (multiplied by 2).
That would be 6 units on a tile during the Medieval era and 12 in the cities.


You can see the end results here :

P

Post in thread 'Beyond the Game - Competitive Expansion'

Thursday at 5:31 PM

Civ X Options - Redoing Unit per Tile concept properly for the Civ Franchise
Had the idea reading this interesting topic - https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/why-is-civ4-still-the-best-civ-game.677427/post-16564051


For this I need to code 3 options that work together

1 - Civ X - Unit per turn limit :
It's X unit per turn max, + Y unit per ear you've discovered + Z Fix amount, and an addition (or multiplier) for cities
So for example, with the default value of 2/2/ *2, in Medieval you can have 6 units on a tile and 12 in a city
- It only applies to military...

• P&nny