Why is Mongolia in and not Korea

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Myths are not always based on history.

Anyway, you should be glad to know that some Koreans are now claiming that Korea are over 10,000 years old. :eek: Apparently they invented Chinese characters and their civlization, moved to the Indus valley and formed the Indus Valley civilization, founded Sumeria and moved to Egypt founding the civilization there as well. They colonized Alaska, and North America as well. They conquered the Incas and Essex in England. :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEba68tEuFw&feature=related

More on the 10,000 year "claim". Riveting stuff! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIhoBy6a0BY

Korean historians seem to be confused here. One of them said that they conquered the Incas but this one says that they founded the Inca nation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReGXaqZ7p2U&feature=related

Anyway, according to Korean historians, they are responsible for pretty well all of the major civilizations in the world so I would argue then that Korea is in fact over represented in the game. :lol:

haha i think ive seen something like this on tv

i dont know if it's true or not. i think we founded the chinese characters, but i dont think we founded the incans. that's just too crazy
now im not saying what the videos are saying is wrong, it's just an exageration so dont be offended
 
haha i think ive seen something like this on tv

i dont know if it's true or not. i think we founded the chinese characters, but i dont think we founded the incans. that's just too crazy
now im not saying what the videos are saying is wrong, it's just an exageration so dont be offended

I'm not offended at all to be honest. I think since Koreans apparently founded so many of the ancient civilizations, that would be a reason not to include them in the game. There are already too many Korean civilizations. China, India, Egypt and Arabia are all Korean. I think they also claim that Mongolians, Incas, Native Americans and Aztecs are also all Korean. At a minimum that's at least 8 Korean civilizations in the game! ;)
 
Korea (North and South) are city state of America and China. But it might be added as civ like previous version because the market there in South Korea is high. That's all.
 
For Korea to be taken seriously you must either become a incredibly large empire or contribute to mass genocide of some sorts. That's probely what all the civilizations have in common. They were either very big empires or killed alot of people. Maybe Korea should sit this one out and be proud :-D
 
Mongolia managed to take over a huge portion of Asia, although they kinda got owned by Vietnam. XD...
 
For Korea to be taken seriously you must either become a incredibly large empire or contribute to mass genocide of some sorts. That's probely what all the civilizations have in common. They were either very big empires or killed alot of people. Maybe Korea should sit this one out and be proud :-D

haha true. It's hard to see Mongolia as a "civilization" when they weren't civilized at all. If anyone deserves the title of "barbarian" it's the mongol hordes.
 
so the mongols are out, but i believe that korea is more important than mongols

mongolia got most of its culture from the turks, who are already represented by the ottomen, so their civilization is not a real civilization

while korea did have lots of its culture from china, we also have a lot of our own culture that influenced the world (hangul, tae kwon do, kimchi, calligraphy, korean drama, yi sun sin BoA, Rain, TVXQ, mp3 players, ban ki moon). mongolia today is far poorer than korea so it makes no sense at all

i believe that korea should be in

leader: taejo
second leader: yi sun sin
unique building: pavilion - +2 happiness
unique unit: peace keepers - double defence when aftacked
unique ability: endurance - other countries cannot declare war on korea

You will see the Koreans later. The game just came out.
 
I think both the most common sides of the argument are at fault. I think Mongols should be in over Korea, though I'm Korean--partly because they made a huge world empire and suchlike. It always annoys me when I see other Koreans on internet forums with poor English (not to sound...ok it already sounds patronizing), but more importantly with a swollen sense of national pride.

Korea should be proud, but it certainly didn't FOUND all these other cultures or make Chinese characters, lol. I get the impression this desire to be first comes from Korea's long history of having had to deal with foreign invasions. Koreans defeated many foreign invasions, but they did succumb to Mongols and Manchus as well as the Han Chinese, though all of them were ousted in a few years, and the first major Japanese invasion was wiped out by guerrillas and Yi Sun Shin's naval expertise (though the Japanese did major damage to Korea in both its major invasions).

I do think Korea will be included in an expansion pack. It's all too easy to find a fluent Korean speaker who can speak in the old-style Korean now on some historical Korean dramas. People who look at the Seoul CS and say Korea wouldn't be in ought to look at Oslo and the Viking in the opening cinematic. :)

But yeah, Korea is a unique country and has contributed lasting cultural, scientific, religious and commercial influence into both China and Japan (though it did also, like each of them, receive influence from the others). King Sejong should be the leader imo. I'm tired of Wang Kon, Taejo and the like. Sejong is the king Koreans most respect, and he created the Hangul alphabet, drove out the Wokou Japanese pirates, made some fearful military machines, and fostered scientific and artistic innovations (among them a celestial globe and a unique musical instruments).

The idea that Korea hasn't had lasting impact beyond its borders is false. Koryo celadon pottery, Digital Multimedia Broadcasting (which Korea did actually invent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Broadcasting). Potters in Japan, stolen during the Imjin Wars. The first observatory in world history (still standing at Gyeongju), sends the 3rd largest number of Christian missionaries overseas annually, behind Britain and the United States--might have surpassed Britain at this point, and of course its exports of computers, TVs etc are fairly popular. Samsung is a Korean company, not a Japanese one. ;)


Here are my ideas for a Korean civ. =)
Leader: King Sejong. Strong defensive army, likes to trade, doesn't expand much. Emphasizes science and culture.

UA: Morning Calm (could be any of the following: Cities within 2 tiles of hills and mountains receive +5 defense, +3 science and double hitpoints....or, Ranged units +1 range and +2 line of sight, citadels do 1 extra damage, cities doubled in hitpoints...or anything vaguely commercial, scientific and/or primarily defensive...Cities +3 science and culture when not at war? maybe. OR--Every Social Policy that is unlocked grants you +X beakers, and can overflow to the next technology you research)

UU: Hwacha, replaces Trebuchet. Costs more and moves slower than trebuchet, but can do splash damage to multiple troops. Splash damage increased in range and damage when on hills or fortified. Extra defense against infantry. (Hwarang would be a nice alternative, but we already have too many archer replacements)

UB: Seowon (University that adds +1 culture, costs +1 maintenance, and provides +65% science rather than 50%, or maybe a univ which adds 1 hammer or suchlike).
 
haha true. It's hard to see Mongolia as a "civilization" when they weren't civilized at all. If anyone deserves the title of "barbarian" it's the mongol hordes.

Actually, in a lot of ways, the Mongols were much more "civilized" than their counterparts in the 13th century.

For example, the Mongols had freedom of worship established in their empire. Pretty enlightened compared to all the fighting over religion in Europe and the Middle East with the crusades and religious persecution being the norm.

Also, the Pax Mongolica greatly encouraged trade and allowed for the free exchange of ideas from East to West. It allowed such concepts as the printing press and gunpowder to make its way to Europe.

I quite enjoyed reading this book and I'd recommend it to anyone who is interested in Mongol history. The Mongols were the first globalists and their contribution to the modern world is quite impressive.

“Genghis Khan & the Making of the Modern World” by Jack Weatherford
Copyright © 2004 by Jack Weatherford,
Published by Crown Publishers, Random House, ISBN 0-609-61062-7


Here's an excerpt from pages 232-234:
The volume of information produced in the Mongol Empire required new forms of dissemination. Scribes could no longer handle the follow of laboriously hand copying everything that need to be written. They compiled the records, wrote letters, and sent information to those who need it, but they did not have time to copy agricultural manuals, medical treatises, atlases, and astronomical tables. Information had to be mass-produced for mass dissemination, and for this task, the Mongols turned again to technology, to printing.

The Mongols adopted printing technology very early. In addition to the printings sponsored by Toregene during the reign of her husband, beginning in 1236 Ogedei ordered the establishment of a series of regional printing facilities across the Mongol-controlled territory of northern China. Printing with moveable letters probably began in China in the middle of the twelfth century, but it was the Mongols who employed it on a massive scale and harnessed its potential power to the needs of state administration. Instead of the printing with thousand of characters, as the Chinese did, the Mongols used an alphabet in which the same letters were used repeatedly. Under the Mongols, printers carved out many copies of each letter that could be then arranged in whatever word was needed. Each time the printer wanted a new page of print, instead of carving the whole text, he needed to merely place the right sequence of already carved letters into position, use them, and then wait until the next printing job, when they could be rearranged and then used again.

General literacy increased during the Mongol dynasty, and the volume of literary materiel grew proportionately. In 1269, Khubilai Khan established a printing office to make government decisions more widely disseminated throughout the population, and he encouraged widespread printing in general by nongovernmental groups as well. This included religious books and novels in addition to government publications. The number of books in print increased so dramatically that their price fell constantly throughout the era of Mongol rule. Presses throughout the Mongol Empire were soon printing agriculture pamphlets, almanacs, scriptures, laws, histories, medical treatises, new mathematical theories, songs, and poetry in many languages.

Whether in their policy of religious tolerance, devising a universal alphabet, maintaining relay stations, playing games, or printing almanacs, money or astronomy charts, the rulers of the Mongol Empire displayed a persistent universalism. Because they had no system of their own to impose upon their subjects, they were willing to adopt and combine systems from everywhere. Without deep cultural preferences in these areas, the Mongols implemented pragmatic rather than ideological solutions. They searched for what worked best; and when they found it, they spread it to other countries. They did not have to worry whether their astronomy agreed with the precepts of the Bible, that their standards of writing followed the classical principals taught by the mandarins of China, or that Muslim imams disapproved of their printing and painting. The Mongols had the power, at least temporarily to impose new international systems of technology, agriculture, and knowledge that superseded the predilections or prejudices of any single civilization; and in so doing, they broke the monopoly on thought exercised by local elites.
 
If Korea is added to the game, you can be certain one of their unique units will be the turtle ship, like it or not. Everyone who knows just a tiny bit about Korean history knows about the turtle ships and will be expecting to see them.

And Spain will get a conquistador unit, even though no one in Spain really cares about it. The Spanish think of the Reconquest, guerrilla wars against Napoleon, and the Spanish Civil War long before they think of conquistadors.
 
And as far as I know, Mongols had stopped Muslim from spreading across the world. The Khan leader once said to Muslim people: "You may want to follow Ala (or Mohammad?) but as long as i am here you must follow my sword". Not sure if I remember correctly, sorry.
 
Tifa, can i know why do u said that Korean its more important then Mongol Historically? to set something important or less important it have to base on measurement, if we talk about history we talk about influence.

But maybe have a reason behind this, can i know your explanation, argument, hypothesis, desertation, thesis, anti thesis, or what ever it is?

thank you
 
And as far as I know, Mongols had stopped Muslim from spreading across the world. The Khan leader once said to Muslim people: "You may want to follow Ala (or Mohammad?) but as long as i am here you must follow my sword". Not sure if I remember correctly, sorry.

Allah, its etymologically from the world Al-Ilah, Al mean "The", "Ilah" mean God, more like "The God" to be more spessific there only "One" God. Ilah in Hebrew call "Eloh", Al change to "El", El-Eloh sometime being also consider as Elloh or Ellohim. In armaic it change to Elli. And Muhammad saw. in muslim term its different then Jesus, they consider him as The Messenger of God, not God, same like Moses or Noah.
 
Here are my ideas for a Korean civ. =)
Leader: King Sejong. Strong defensive army, likes to trade, doesn't expand much. Emphasizes science and culture.

UA: Morning Calm (could be any of the following: Cities within 2 tiles of hills and mountains receive +5 defense, +3 science and double hitpoints....or, Ranged units +1 range and +2 line of sight, citadels do 1 extra damage, cities doubled in hitpoints...or anything vaguely commercial, scientific and/or primarily defensive...Cities +3 science and culture when not at war? maybe. OR--Every Social Policy that is unlocked grants you +X beakers, and can overflow to the next technology you research)

UU: Hwacha, replaces Trebuchet. Costs more and moves slower than trebuchet, but can do splash damage to multiple troops. Splash damage increased in range and damage when on hills or fortified. Extra defense against infantry. (Hwarang would be a nice alternative, but we already have too many archer replacements)

UB: Seowon (University that adds +1 culture, costs +1 maintenance, and provides +65% science rather than 50%, or maybe a univ which adds 1 hammer or suchlike).
Well the one thing you have in common with the other Korean posters is your request for insanely overpowered civ uniques. :rolleyes:
 
ok maybe it's 4400 but you should read the Samguk Yusa, it's clear that the gojoseon was established in 2333BC
myths are based on history

Quote:
Unlike the more factually-oriented Samguk Sagi, the Samguk Yusa focuses on various folktales, legends, and biographies from early Korean history. Many of the founding legends of the various kingdoms in Korean history are recorded in the book. Illyeon covered legends from many Korean kingdoms, including Gojoseon, Wiman Joseon, Buyeo, Goguryeo, Baekje, Silla, and Gaya.

I don't understand, it seems that clearly some history are written according to myths and somehow you claim that history has a solid proof thus myths are based on them?
Are we talking in circles?
 
Well the one thing you have in common with the other Korean posters is your request for insanely overpowered civ uniques.
Not as overpowered as Japan's ability in game now. ;) Plus they are largely defensive in nature, and thus rather restricted.

If Korea is added to the game, you can be certain one of their unique units will be the turtle ship, like it or not. Everyone who knows just a tiny bit about Korean history knows about the turtle ships and will be expecting to see them.
The Turtle Ship would be nice to see, yes. Another interesting thing is that if the Hwacha and Turtle Ship become Korea's units, and Sejong the leader--all will fit in the same time period. During Sejong's reign (or about there, 15th c.) the Hwacha and Turtle Ship were first invented, if my memory serves. The Turtle Ship could replace the Frigate, I think. The Koreans did get modern Ironclads later.

The thing I worry about is that Korea with 2 UUs would make them more military in nature than they need be....they should be vaguely defensive, scientific, commercial. XD
 
I'm not offended at all to be honest. I think since Koreans apparently founded so many of the ancient civilizations, that would be a reason not to include them in the game. There are already too many Korean civilizations. China, India, Egypt and Arabia are all Korean. I think they also claim that Mongolians, Incas, Native Americans and Aztecs are also all Korean. At a minimum that's at least 8 Korean civilizations in the game! ;)

OMG
Sid Meier's Korealization:eek:
 
kids know mongolia and want to be genghis khan. nobody knows anything about korea and nobody wants to be korean. edit: the girls are nice though and it certainly is a beautiful country.
Gross exaggeration. North Korea. South Korea. Nukes. Kim Jong Il. US involvement. Samsung. Turtle Ship, Hwacha. Yi Sun-shin. Kimchi. Buddhism. Bulguksa.

And that's just skimming the top of the pinnacle.

In fact most people who know about Genghis Khan know surprisingly little about Mongolia. :)
 
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