Why Islam is a problem for the integration of immigrants

[El_Machinae]

He knows it is denigrating. That's why he used it. It's not worth the effort to maintain a pretense that you don't know what we are dealing with here El Mac. We can't use the word, but there's no point pretending we are dealing with anything but what we have here.

Naw. We live in a world of echo-chambers. If someone is willing to come out of theirs, I'm willing to meet them halfway in creating a dialogue. He'll either ratchet up the communication, in order to communicate, or he'll refuse to and then fail to communicate. But I live in a world where I let people change their behavior before I write them off.

 

[Synobun]

The allies put Germans and Japanese into internment camps.

Yeah, and this has been routinely pointed out as immoral and exceptionally unhelpful towards the intended cause. I cannot think of a single time in history when internment camps were successful and beneficial for those involved.

 

[RomanKing]

Yeah, and this has been routinely pointed out as immoral and exceptionally unhelpful towards the intended cause. I cannot think of a single time in history when internment camps were successful and beneficial for those involved.

It was necessary.

Internment camps work. It's prevents attacks from occurring.

 

[El_Machinae]

You're only delaying the inevitable, not preventing it and the more the left drags it's heels the worse it's going to be for them when the time finally does come.

How so?

The allies put Germans and Japanese into internment camps.

It's true. There are a handful of cases in recent history where we were able to soundly beat an evil regime, and for the net benefit of both the victors and the survivors. But it's been really, really hard to replicate those successes.

I'm not sure the 'internment camps' of WWII were a key factor in the eventual success.

 

[Synobun]

It was necessary.

What does this mean? If something is 'necessary', it stands to reason that a certain result was required and thus achieved.

 

[RomanKing]

How so?

You think the left is hated now? Keep dragging your heels until this conflict turns into a global crisis and you'll all be held up as the definition of traitors and trash for generations to come.

What does this mean? If something is 'necessary', it stands to reason that a certain result was required and thus achieved.

No attacks within the homeland.

 

[Ajidica]

I'm still struggling to understand why you think your "kill 'em all" approach to terrorism would work any better than when the British tried it in Northern Ireland.
God knows it certainly didn't work for the British, Portuguese, French, South Africans, or Rhodesians.

 

[El_Machinae]

You think the left is hated now? Keep dragging your heels until this conflict turns into a global crisis and you'll all be held up as the definition of traitors and trash for generations to come.

Naw, the left is a very large percentage of people. And we're mostly in the center on most issues. If your media has convinced you that I am somehow a traitor that deserves contempt, then you're probably living in a very angry echo-chamber. As well, 'the left' tend to be correct on a variety of issues, in general. So, no, I don't think we'll be viewed as 'trash' in any way that will actually make my life 'worse'.

There is no 'status quo' in this discussion. All of the conversation is about which tools are deployed to reduce the risks, and at what intensity. There's no scenario where 'excessively sufficient violence' can work, since we're talking about billions of people. Of whom only a teeny fraction are actual threats.

 

[RomanKing]

Naw, the left is a very large percentage of people. And we're mostly in the center on most issues. If your media has convinced you that I am somehow a traitor that deserves contempt, then you're probably living in a very angry echo-chamber. As well, 'the left' tend to be correct on a variety of issues, in general. So, no, I don't think we'll be viewed as 'trash' in any way that will actually make my life 'worse'.

There is no 'status quo' in this discussion. All of the conversation is about which tools are deployed to reduce the risks, and at what intensity. There's no scenario where 'excessively sufficient violence' can work, since we're talking about billions of people. Of whom only a teeny fraction are actual threats.

We'll see who's right in 5 years.

The liberal world order is being dismantled as we speak and the right is on the rise throughout the West. A new world order is being created in the right's image without any input from the left. They have become entirely irrelevant.

 

[El_Machinae]

We'll see who's right in 5 years.

The liberal world order is being dismantled as we speak and the right is on the rise throughout the West. A new world order is being created in the right's image without any input from the left. They have become entirely irrelevant.

Oh, I won't deny that baby-fascism is gaining momentum. But it's not going to end badly for me, except insofar as baby-fascists tend to have worse policies overall. They don't really understand economics or governance because their world view has a specific filter.

But that you've dividing the world into 'them-vs-us', when 'them' is something like 50% of the population makes me realize you probably have great insights into the nature of radicalization. Once you've bought into the idea of radicalization, I realize that the idea of conversion becomes more foreign. And that it's just a question of who applies sufficient power first. But that doesn't work when dealing with 50% of the population. We've dealt with your kind before. It's why we're also less afraid of muslims than you are

 

[Broken_Erika]

Until their policies blow up in their faces and we end up back around the center somewhere.

 

[RomanKing]

There will be no going back. The left has pulled the world into an irreversible direction.

 

[El_Machinae]

Kinda. I'm going to say that the 19th and 20th century policies that ruined the Middle East were more rightwing than anything. It's amazing what happens when kings draw lines on far away maps, and then puppet states are used as pawns during a Cold War.

But yes, 'the left' has plenty to answer for. I'm not really believing that the rightwing would have presented superior answers. And I'm not sure 'the left' is responsible for your binary view of the world. I suspect that you're stuck in an echo chamber.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Does anyone remember the time when Al Qaeda was an american ally in the fight against communism? Way to go Reagan!

 

[RomanKing]

Kinda. I'm going to say that the 19th and 20th century policies that ruined the Middle East were more rightwing than anything. It's amazing what happens when kings draw lines on far away maps, and then puppet states are used as pawns during a Cold War.

But yes, 'the left' has plenty to answer for. I'm not really believing that the rightwing would have presented superior answers. And I'm not sure 'the left' is responsible for your binary view of the world. I suspect that you're stuck in an echo chamber.

You keep telling yourself whatever helps you sleep at night.

When this is all over you're going to be sorely bitter and disappointed because when everything suddenly changed you were stuck in your echo chamber and didn't see it coming, or care to understand why.

 

[El_Machinae]

There is no "all over". I'll be bitter and sad in the future, no doubt. Happens a lot. But there's no end to this story. I'm not really sure what you're warning us about.

 

[RomanKing]

There is no "all over". I'll be bitter and sad in the future, no doubt. Happens a lot. But there's no end to this story. I'm not really sure what you're warning us about.

The end of the story is going to be great, just not for you, or your worldview.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Personally i think the future will be either nuclear winter or something out of Mad Max. Just gotta get myself a car with a good V8 engine. Although nuclear winter would take care of the global warming problem.

 

[El_Machinae]

The end of the story is going to be great, just not for you, or your worldview.

So, you're just gonna refuse to actually dialogue?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So, you're just gonna refuse to actually dialogue?

I tried to tell you. I'm all for meeting halfway when they crawl out of their Breitbart hell holes. Heck, I even go right in there and meet them. But I already tried that last night. This one is telling you the future will be great for those on the right side of the "cleansing" and predicting that won't include you. There is no halfway available.