Why isn't Phi/Ind in the game?

[BigDaddyOttawa]

(Careful, Paradigm Shifter, we've already lost one North American colony. We don't want to stir up treacherous republican sentiments amongst these guys too. Just humour them)

Well done, good Canadians, your tower is a magnificent achievement - the pinnacle of human endeavour!

(hehe, that should keep them under her majesty's most glorious thumb for another century or so)

OMG too funny

Okay back to the topic at hand now that it has been completely derailed.

I'm sure I read the developers pulled it because they felt it was "too" unfair of an advantage.

 

[reverend oats]

(Careful, Paradigm Shifter, we've already lost one North American colony. We don't want to stir up treacherous republican sentiments amongst these guys too. Just humour them)

Well done, good Canadians, your tower is a magnificent achievement - the pinnacle of human endeavour!

(hehe, that should keep them under her majesty's most glorious thumb for another century or so)

Really, that was the funniest thing I've heard all day. W.H. gets a cookie.

 

[martin026]

I think it would be okay if PHI did not apply to GP points produced from wonders. I do not think that this would nerf the trait for non industrious civs. But I could be wrong.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Its UU would have to be based on the axeman, and it would need something like "saggy axeman". STR 4, +40% melee, +30% on fresh water tiles. UB would be equally crappy, like "filthy grocer", which never gives resource bonuses no matter what.

I would allow a civ like this into the game with those traits. I would find it entertaining in fact.

That, or just make everyone hate that leader.

 

[Molybdeus]

Maybe Geddy Lee counts as a great artist though. Bryan Adams, not so sure.

Canadians have a ton of potential great artists. William Shatner, John Candy, Jim Carrey, Dan Akroyd, Michael J Fox, Keanu Reaves, etc. And that's only male actors.

Wonders, however, are in short supply.

 

[Mesousa]

There's always Celine Dion for a Great Artist ...

From what I hear, wouldn't there have to be a "No Military" custom game option to play Canada though?

 

[kniteowl]

The Makers tested out Phil/Ind when they were making Vanilla Civ4, and decided that it was too powerful and borken. If you really want to play it you can mod it in, it's not very hard.

I Agree with some of the people fro mthe older Phil/Ind Threads that Linkin should be Phil/Ind, for both historical and Game balance reasons. Even though My knowledge of History is near zero lol.

 

[Sir Janus]

Canadians have a ton of potential great artists. William Shatner, John Candy, Jim Carrey, Dan Akroyd, Michael J Fox, Keanu Reaves, etc. And that's only male actors.

Yes, but they can only be joined to USA cities or to boost USA culture.

 

[brianb1974]

So is Canada still technically a vassal of Great Britain?

Haven't they achieved the necessary population to break free already?

 

[futurehermit]

(Careful, Paradigm Shifter, we've already lost one North American colony. We don't want to stir up treacherous republican sentiments amongst these guys too. Just humour them)

Well done, good Canadians, your tower is a magnificent achievement - the pinnacle of human endeavour!

(hehe, that should keep them under her majesty's most glorious thumb for another century or so)

damn brits, we keep good relations with them so that they think they are still pursuing a domination victory while we happily go about achieving legendary cultural status

and, yes, we're not an industrious civilization. we're more of the creative-protective type with our peace-keeping and our cheaper theatre tickets

 

[Maestro_Innit]

You guys were there on D-Day..... surely that's all that needs to be said

 

[Jtownsend]

All countries "punch above their weight" in some respects and below in others. I'd certainly say Canada's among the most fortunate in the past two centuries, and has made admirable use of that good fortune. Accounting for population - half Britain, a tenth of the US, and so on - and a history of 141 years of home rule and 77 of full indepedence, we've frankly kind of mopped the floor with most of these other so-called countries.

Some people don't like accounting for population, of course, but let's face it, a Britain made out of 2 Canadian populations probably could have convinced the Empire into sticking around, and a US made out of 10 Canadas would probably be getting primary returns from the Alpha Centauri colony this week via subspace.

Ind/Phi strikes me as overpowered. All of the strong SE trait combos with Phi have the sole caveat that you don't get the -additional- GPP surge from building wonders willy-nilly. If there -were- a Phi/Ind leader I would be in BTS at this moment playing him. When I started taking SE seriously I really wanted one. The inability to leverage wonderspam into super-efficient GP spam is the main reason why Industrious is a middle as opposed to top-tiered ability; Phi-Ind would not be a mid+top trait combo, but a top+top combo, like Liz only more synergetic.

 

[madscientist]

Jtownsend,

All canadian comments aside (hey I think Canada is a dam well evolved country, you guys have the Cadian Football League and teach us how to play Hockey!) but I do not understand why you say you can't make a good GP farm out of a wonderspammed city.

1) You must use the capital. OBSOLETE has posted many stronge games with this, and my RPC: Bismark showed the same strat.
2) The capital usually has alot of food, just build all farms there and you'll be running specialists like crazy.
3) Settle your early great Prophets/engineers/scientists to get more hammers and thus build wonders faster.
4) build the NE there.
5) Make sure you get the pyramids and adopt representatione early
6) Pacifism helps more than OR, if you can afford it.
7) Agustus and his UB are very close to Phil/Ind.
8) Build the parthenon is a different city to minimize GA contamination

 

[AmazonQueen]

Any civ that gave us Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and Martha and the Muffins counts as Creative in my book.

 

[Jtownsend]

Well, it's leaders, really, more than countries. Mostly. Trudeau Chm-Cre, Mackenzie King Fin/Ind-Org, unless you wanted to pander to the Tories with some token also-ran PMs. If you put in Sir John A. or Diefenbaker you'd then have some explaining to do to Laurier partisans. Really, it's for the best that Sid thinks we're weenies, the country would tear itself apart over this.

Madscientist: I was a bit unclear but forgot to clarify; I meant to indicate that wonder spam would turn from a good idea into a monstrously effective strategy because of Phi - of course, HC can wonderspam with the Parthenon, and forums if unrestricted leaders is turned on. But our hypothetical leader could do both of those things also, could he not?

With the ability to double the GP benefit of half-price wonders, industrious would be (for that leader only) at least as good a trait as Phi or Fin; and it would be paired up with Fin in an all-SE synergy combo. "Mystery Leader's" industrious would be worth more than HC's industrious, and his philosophical would be worth more than Ghandi's philosophical. The only "top 2 traits" leader is Elizabeth, and while she's certainly great, her traits are more complementary than 'multiplicative.'

 

[BigEd420]

I like Canadians. But I can't recall any of their great philosophers or magnificent wonders though

Hold on now!

Let us not forget the honorable Don Cherry a true philosopher indeed.And those fancey suits he wears would put any great artist to shame. Canada also has a great person.....None other than "The Great One" himself Wayne Gretzky.

 

[futurehermit]

I still feel like this is a single player game (generally) so who cares if ind-phil is the most powerful combination??? Is this game really balanced across all leaders??? Are praetorians nicely balanced? Quechuas against the AI?

To me, I don't care if ind/phil is the most powerful trait pairing. No need to keep it out of the game. If this was primarily a multiplayer game then, yes, game balance is crucial. And anyone who thinks ind/phil would be op in multiplayer is pretty silly imo since a stack of axes takes care of that problem.

 

[Sir Janus]

Any civ that gave us Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and Martha and the Muffins counts as Creative in my book.

Any civ that can claim that Marconi was Canadian is definitely Creative

http://www.canadians.ca/more/profiles/m/m_guglielmo_marconi.htm

.

 

[Jtownsend]

futurehermit: I don't disagree with you; I just think that's why he's not there. Someone at Firaxis thought, "Great people-generating wonders plus 100 percent more great people? Not so much."

 

[futurehermit]

Yeah, I know what they were thinking, but I just disagree with it The leaders aren't balanced and someone has to be the most powerful, so why not ind/phil