Why so many bleeding-hearts?

[Peck of Arabia]

Nobody ever really considers the power vacuum created by the sudden collapse of Imperial power- the film doesn't show it, but it must have been like Iraq c.2006-8 across the entire galaxy! How many lives and livelihoods were lost in the ensuing anarchy and chaos? Were the alliance aware of this outcome and malign, or unaware and dangerously incompetent?

Maybe the empire was evil, in fact, yes it certainly was; but given the alternative- maybe it was the lesser of two evils?

 

[Arwon]

Only terrorists consider civilians to be legitimate targets.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Nobody ever really considers the power vacuum created by the sudden collapse of Imperial power- the film doesn't show it, but it must have been like Iraq c.2006-8 across the entire galaxy! How many lives and livelihoods were lost in the ensuing anarchy and chaos? Were the alliance aware of this outcome and malign, or unaware and dangerously incompetent?

Maybe the empire was evil, in fact, yes it certainly was; but given the alternative- maybe it was the lesser of two evils?

You try sleeping the night inside a tauntaun's belly surrounded by tauntaun guts! I'm sure Luke was all "Just get me outta Hoth, screw the power vacuum!"

 

[Borachio]

So, you're a Sith, Arwon? I'm guessing. The statement might be valid if it was along the lines of "Probably only Siths deal in absolutes". Unless you are a Sith, of course. Or is that the point?

I'm rambling. Right?

 

[WindFish]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

Name one country post 1945 and that isn't Israel that deliberately targeted civilians

Name one terrorist organisation that hasn't

 

[Borachio]

Define country, civilian, Israel, and terrorist.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Name one country post 1945 and that isn't Israel that deliberately targeted civilians

Name one terrorist organisation that hasn't

If you target a military site fully aware that there are civilians present, then that's deliberate.

Name one country that's done that? I'd say every single one.

 

[Borachio]

What about conscripts? Aren't they simply civilians in costume?

 

[WindFish]

If you target a military site fully aware that there are civilians present, then that's deliberate.

Name one country that's done that? I'd say every single one.

Thats different though.

Define country, civilian, Israel, and terrorist.

A country that has full country status plus PRC and ROC.

Civilian is someone who isn't in the military

Israel is the nation-state that exists in the middle east

Terrorist is someone who fights a military asymmetrically

 

[WindFish]

What about conscripts? Aren't they simply civilians in costume?

No they are not.

 

[Arwon]

Damn it guys

 

[Borachio]

No they are not.

In what way? What magic transformation takes place between the moment before the envelope drops on the mat and the moment after?

 

[Peck of Arabia]

I thought terrorism was defined as "use of random acts of violence to achieve political aims"

Also, can we go back to talking about star wars? I was really getting into that

 

[Arwon]

Name one country post 1945 and that isn't Israel that deliberately targeted civilians

Name one terrorist organisation that hasn't

Also, just quietly, what?

Do I need to familiarise you with "nearly every war that didn't involve North Americans or Western Europeans and some that did"? If nothing else, Yugoslavia and Rwanda? Syria right this very moment? Any number of Latin American dirty wars? Indonesia in East Timor? Sri Lanka fighting the Tamil Tigers? China's response to Tienanmen Square? The Russians in Chechnya?

But we're already taking a lame Star Wars joke entirely too seriously now aren't we.

 

[Borachio]

I thought terrorism was defined as "use of random acts of violence to achieve political aims"

Also, can we go back to talking about star wars? I was really getting into that

Well, you could always try a bit of steerage yourself. Or is this it?

It's harder than it looks sometimes. Sometimes easier. Sometimes accidental.

Why random? I mean it wouldn't work too well for Hamas just to go round randomly killing just anyone would it? Like... just no.

 

[WindFish]

Also, just quietly, what?

Do I need to familiarise you with "nearly every war that didn't involve North Americans or Western Europeans and some that did"? If nothing else, Yugoslavia and Rwanda? Syria right this very moment? Any number of Latin American dirty wars? Indonesia in East Timor? Sri Lanka fighting the Tamil Tigers? China's response to Tienanmen Square? The Russians in Chechnya?

Well those are interesting talking points for another thread.

But we're already taking a lame Star Wars joke entirely too seriously now aren't we.

Yes yes we are and I am going to stop talking about it now

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Thats different though

I agree. I certainly see the difference between accepting a certain number of non military deaths in the process of attacking a military target (the context in which the Star Wars discussion was held) and purely targeting civilians as a means of victory.

And still there are dilemmas. Say Vader is the only one with the codes to activate the laser in two hours time and he's ducked out to the pub for a few pre-slaughter cold ones. Is it ok to wipe out the pub and 100 thirsty Ewoks to save Tattouine? NON STAR WARS EDIT....Would it be ok to wipe out say, the Wolfs Lair or Stalin's dacha at the expense of 100 staff?

I would add that any scenario that involves blowing up/light sabreing/crushing in garbage compactor Jar Jar would be readily authorized by me.

EDIT....damn it, I just realized the Star Wars joke isn't cool anymore. Seems a bit arbitrary if you ask me.

 

[bathsheba666]

most nerds seem to be wimpy individuals who need someone (big government) to be their mommy and daddy. Us real men are libertarians.

I bet that Adam Lanza kid was a democrat. He couldn't live without his mommy.

No offense to present company of course. I'm sure some day you will all grow up, and when you are older, you will see the error of your ways. Young people tend to be liberal and socialist. I was a socialist in high school. I think it's pretty common.

No offense of course, sonny, but when you patch up the holes in your education you may learn to think more clearly. I suggest some remedial night school classes, preferably state provided.

 

[Peck of Arabia]

Well, you could always try a bit of steerage yourself. Or is this it?

It's harder than it looks sometimes. Sometimes easier. Sometimes accidental.

Why random? I mean it wouldn't work too well for Hamas just to go round randomly killing just anyone would it? Like... just no.

That was my attempt at steerage - not that I'm too fussed, just that we're heading down a conversational path well trodden.

I say "random" perhaps "unpredictable" and "without the traditional boundaries of warfare" might be better- the aim being to create a sense of fear across an entire population that it could be them next time

Using that rough definition, most states, particularly in the west, and especially the US are as much purveyors and supporters of terrorists than organisations such as Hamas, or political entities such as Palestine. Well, according to Noam Chomsky anyway.

 

[Benefactor]

Blowing up the Death Star even if it's full of civilians is fine, it's a moon sized battlestation riddled with guns. Everybody on board knows it's a valid military target.

Blowing up, say, the brand new Imperial childrens hospital is not fine though. Obviously.