Why Star Trek didn't make it

[warpus]

The U.S.S. Butterface?

 

[rah]

Well we've seen Warships, (all pretty, so check) We've seen exploration vessels (all pretty, so check) We've seen research vessels (all pretty, so check) We've see merchant ships, yeah, those Ferengi are pretty ugly.

 

[warpus]

Ants are ugly from a human point of view, but I bet they're all hot from an ant point of view. Same with the Ferengi

 

[rah]

Trying serious logic after posting

The U.S.S. Butterface?

just not credible.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Lol, what? Other than "TAS had the first Native American crewmember", what else is there in that post that could be construed as anything other than "cool Star Trek facts"? Not that I'm knocking cool Star Trek facts btw, but I don't think when the first holodeck appeared in the franchise, when DeForest Kelly died, or if Robert April is cannon, have much to do with any wider concerns about diversity in society.

FTR I said "diversity/inclusiveness" and I think you missed some things... but whateves, its not that serious. Plus, @Valka D'Ur can speak for herself about what she meant.

If diversity is so important in the federation, where are all the ugly people?

In the brig, where they belong.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In the X Universe there is a background of "public service station announcements" when you are docked, and one of them is "If you bring any animals on board please be sure they are chained. Any loose animals will be vaporized on sight." I figure in the Star Trek universe they have a similar policy towards ugly people.

 

[rah]

Then most of us will never see the future.

 

[Broken_Erika]

That's why i like Babylon 5, they went out of their way to find the oddest looking people for use as extras, mostly in down below(essentially space hobos)....and they didn't cast them as aliens either.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's why i like Babylon 5, they went out of their way to find the oddest looking people for use as extras, mostly in down below(essentially space hobos)....and they didn't cast them as aliens either.

Thus perpetuating "it's not what you know, it's how you look" that gets you a lofty position on the bridge.

 

[Sommerswerd]

(essentially space hobos)

In the X Universe there is a background of "public service station announcements" when you are docked, and one of them is "If you bring any animals on board please be sure they are chained. Any loose animals will be vaporized on sight." I figure in the Star Trek universe they have a similar policy towards ugly people.

I like "Beggars are operating aboard the station... please do not encourage these professional beggars... if you have any spare credits, please give them to a registered charity."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I like "Beggars are operating aboard the station... please do not encourage these professional beggars... if you have any spare credits, please give them to a registered charity."

I dunno what X game you play, but early on in the series there were "registered charities" that allowed you to buy reputation.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I think the "finally" was a meta-reference to diversity/inclusiveness rather than a reference to anything in-character... seemed pretty clear to me, taking in context the rest of the post. You don't agree?

You are correct. Up until TAS, there was no on-screen indication that Uhura ever had aspirations to command or to even sit in the Captain's chair at all. But if Kirk had given her temporary command in his absence or assigned her to take the night shift, she would have done so.

My use of "finally" was a reference to the fact that in all of TOS, Kirk never gave temporary command to any of the female officers even once (I don't count Number One, as she was under Pike's command, and as the First Officer, she would be expected to take temporary command as needed as a normal part of her duties).

So when this TAS episode came along, it was nice to see Uhura finally take command and show what she was capable of.

Dunno. The rest of the post seemed to be just "cool Star Trek facts" without much metapolytical analysis.

Oh, do excuse me for not engaging in "metapolytical analysis" (whatever that is).

@Sommerswerd mentioned TAS, and I decided to add some information to the thread, for the benefit of people who haven't seen this series. If anyone has any specific questions they'd like to ask, feel free. I'll answer to the best of my ability, and if I don't know the answer, I know of some good resources.

I just watched a jarringly misogynistic TNG episode The Perfect Mate. Picard is taking a stasis pod to a planet that will be used to create a peace settlement between warring worlds. The pod is broken open by nefarious Ferrangis and everyone find out that in the stasis pod is this empathic woman who is destined to become the perfect partner for whatever man she bonds with. And of course every man on the ship falls head over heels for her and she flirts nonstop with everyone. (I thought she was played by Cindy Crawford but it was really Famke Janssen)

She ends up falling in love with Picard while she is tutoring him for reasons and of course he's in love with her and just barely in control of himself. In the end, she was meant to bond with the delegate from the other side to seal the peace deal but she ends up bonding with Picard but goes through with her wedding to the delegate and pretends to bond with him because her bond with Picard instilled her with a sense of duty she cannot put aside.

Man it was cringe-worthy the whole way through. The only redeeming aspect was Stewart's acting and the confession he makes to Crusher about his feelings. That part was touching but the rest of the episode was terrible on so many levels.

But then it got followed shortly by The Inner Light where Picard lives an entire life time in a simulation left behind by a dead civilization. That episode is fantastic and really heartbreaking when you think about it. I don't see how anyone could come out of that experience entirely sane.

As with TOS, some episodes of TNG were shockingly misogynistic. Yar crying in frustration, the episode you referenced, the attitudes of the male crew toward Troi's pregnancy in "The Child" (an episode which I just rewatched less than 2 hours ago)... TNG isn't perfect, and these instances are part of the reason why I roll my eyes every time Picard or Riker go into one of their "we're SO enlightened" speeches.

Lol, what? Other than "TAS had the first Native American crewmember", what else is there in that post that could be construed as anything other than "cool Star Trek facts"? Not that I'm knocking cool Star Trek facts btw, but I don't think when the first holodeck appeared in the franchise, when DeForest Kelly died, or if Robert April is cannon, have much to do with any wider concerns about diversity in society.

If you have some objection to or criticism of my posts, make them to me.

My goal in that post was offering general information, not specifically discussing diversity in society, and pointing out that some of the things attributed to Berman-era Star Trek were actually done on TAS first.

Keep in mind that discussing Star Trek and its various spinoffs is something I do every day on the Star Trek forum I hang out on when I'm not here. There are probably a couple of dozen different discussions of diversity going on there at this exact moment.

If diversity is so important in the federation, where are all the ugly people?

They're called "aliens." And there's no question that the DiscoKlingons are hideous.

Actually, TOS had some undeniably plain-looking people among the extras. But the '60s was a decade in which studios did use ordinary-looking people. Have a look at "Charlie X" sometime... specifically the rec room scenes. There's a female crewmember who is not only plain, but actually rather homely... and she's the only female crew other than Sally Kellerman in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" who I noticed wearing the male uniform. She becomes one of Charlie's victims.

@Valka D'Ur can speak for herself about what she meant.

Thank you.

 

[Ajidica]

I just watched a jarringly misogynistic TNG episode The Perfect Mate. Picard is taking a stasis pod to a planet that will be used to create a peace settlement between warring worlds. The pod is broken open by nefarious Ferrangis and everyone find out that in the stasis pod is this empathic woman who is destined to become the perfect partner for whatever man she bonds with. And of course every man on the ship falls head over heels for her and she flirts nonstop with everyone. (I thought she was played by Cindy Crawford but it was really Famke Janssen)

She ends up falling in love with Picard while she is tutoring him for reasons and of course he's in love with her and just barely in control of himself. In the end, she was meant to bond with the delegate from the other side to seal the peace deal but she ends up bonding with Picard but goes through with her wedding to the delegate and pretends to bond with him because her bond with Picard instilled her with a sense of duty she cannot put aside.

Man it was cringe-worthy the whole way through. The only redeeming aspect was Stewart's acting and the confession he makes to Crusher about his feelings. That part was touching but the rest of the episode was terrible on so many levels.

But then it got followed shortly by The Inner Light where Picard lives an entire life time in a simulation left behind by a dead civilization. That episode is fantastic and really heartbreaking when you think about it. I don't see how anyone could come out of that experience entirely sane.

Was it as bad as the episode where Riker teaches the power heterosexual sex to the planet of the lesbian softball coaches? Because I remember that episode as being so much worse.
Apparently the writer intended the androgynous race Riker falls for to be played by male actors dressed up like early David Bowie but that never reached the casting director who interpreted "androgynous" as "butch lesbian" leading to an episode with the unfortunate implication that lesbianism can be solved by Riker's wide stance.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I dunno what X game you play, but early on in the series there were "registered charities" that allowed you to buy reputation.

I'm playing Reunion right now. I want to play through all the way to AP before I try Rebirth.

Was it as bad as the episode where Riker teaches the power heterosexual sex to the planet of the lesbian softball coaches? Because I remember that episode as being so much worse.
Apparently the writer intended the androgynous race Riker falls for to be played by male actors dressed up like early David Bowie but that never reached the casting director who interpreted "androgynous" as "butch lesbian" leading to an episode with the unfortunate implication that lesbianism can be solved by Riker's wide stance.

Remember the one where the Dr. Crusher falls in love with a guy name Odan who is a member of a Trill (or Trill-like) species? All to get us to the punch line at the end that Dr. Crusher don't swing that way...

I did like her line at the end that "maybe someday our capacity to love won't be so limited"... I thought it was a really good thought provoking episode.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

My use of "finally" was a reference to the fact that in all of TOS, Kirk never gave temporary command to any of the female officers even once (I don't count Number One, as she was under Pike's command, and as the First Officer, she would be expected to take temporary command as needed as a normal part of her duties).

Just curious, did all the "regular" male cast take command at some point? Obviously Spock, and I think I can remember Sulu and maybe Scotty at some point. McCoy didn't though did he?

Oh, do excuse me for not engaging in "metapolytical analysis" (whatever that is).

Yeah believe me that's the last thing I want. I wasn't saying you should have done that...

If you have some objection to or criticism of my posts, make them to me.

Obviously I will do, but what you quoted wasn't a criticism or objection to your post.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Was it as bad as the episode where Riker teaches the power heterosexual sex to the planet of the lesbian softball coaches? Because I remember that episode as being so much worse.
Apparently the writer intended the androgynous race Riker falls for to be played by male actors dressed up like early David Bowie but that never reached the casting director who interpreted "androgynous" as "butch lesbian" leading to an episode with the unfortunate implication that lesbianism can be solved by Riker's wide stance.

I think it was worse than this episode but yeah this one was terrible as well.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Not as bad as The Naked Now. Where everyone catches the drunk disease....

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Was it as bad as the episode where Riker teaches the power heterosexual sex to the planet of the lesbian softball coaches? Because I remember that episode as being so much worse.
Apparently the writer intended the androgynous race Riker falls for to be played by male actors dressed up like early David Bowie but that never reached the casting director who interpreted "androgynous" as "butch lesbian" leading to an episode with the unfortunate implication that lesbianism can be solved by Riker's wide stance.

For some reason I'm picturing Riker (with his wide stance) in my living room at a lectern, giving a speech...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

For some reason I'm picturing Riker (with his wide stance) in my living room at a lectern, giving a speech...

For real laughs, I recommend Dan Campbell.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The podium was too low, that's all