Why would anyone support the practice of abortion?

[Shadylookin]

When does the 'blob' come alive? at birth? What about premature birth? Who can say 'Here life begins?'

they were alive back when it was just 2 gametes(sperm and eggs are living cells) it you would like to get technical. You also have to take into consideration billions of cells in your body are dying at any moment. The hundreds of ants I've stepped on with no remorse were more "alive" than any fetus.

I don't support abortion, I support the right for irresponsible people that would be horrible parents and whose kids would just end up milking off the system to have the choice to have one. I mean when's the last time you saw a couple in a very stable relationship that were responsible people and you think would make great parents ever get an abortion?

Abortion is murder just as killing an ant is murder, sure I'm not happy that 40 million possible people aren't existing. Of course many would have become miscarages, have birth defects(I doubt the number of sober and drug free people getting abortions are that high) and possibly die, or just end up being neglected.

 

[JollyRoger]

I have a right to say a women can't kill. Most abortions are done for convienence. Life overrules convienence.

Let's say that I want to do my part in creating a life and my woman of choice conveniently decides not to consent to even committing the procreative act, thus preventing a life from being created. Is that just Satan conspiring through her non-consent to thwart my obviously God-inspired desire to go forth and multiply? Should my desire to create life overrule her convenience in not participating?

 

[Perfection]

What? They are just living with no food/oxygen/water/electricity? It's got to be coming from somewhere.

But not from a living human.

 

[Duddha]

A cartoon that demonstrates how this argument is tied up with women's rights.

 

[BloodyPepperoni]

What bothers me about pro-life people is that they are generally (fiscally) conservative, so they support the right of the fetus, but don’t believe the mother or the baby has the right to food, shelter or financial support.

 

[PHSikes]

But not from a living human.

So these thing just materialized out of thin air?

 

[Akka]

Wow, talk about beating a dead horse...

Repeating the same arguments over and over because the anti-abortions refuse to compute them in their head is tiresome, so I'll make it short.

1) - Your feelings, your thoughts and your emotions are created/perceived because you have a brain.
- If you neither feel, emote nor think, you affect nothing, experience nothing, and, in fact ARE nothing.
- An embryo has no brain.
=> an embryo isn't a human person, and as such has no right, on the contrary of the mother, and as such abortion is not only acceptable, but moral.

2) - Everyone has the most fundamental right of enjoying the integrity of his own body.
- You can't be asked to relinquish your integrity on your body, even at the expense of someone's life (you have the right to kill a rapist in self-defense ; you can't be forced to give up an organ to save the life of another one)
=> even if an embryo was a human person (which it isn't), it would not have the right to force you to host it, and you would still enjoy full freedom over what you do with your body. As such, abortion is acceptable.


Here, now let's the backward anti-abortionists use fallacies and insincerity trying to find counter-arguments that prove nothing. As usual.

 

[PHSikes]

Wow, talk about beating a dead horse...

Repeating the same arguments over and over because the anti-abortions refuse to compute them in their head is tiresome, so I'll make it short.

1) - Your feelings, your thoughts and your emotions are created/perceived because you have a brain.
- If you neither feel, emote nor think, you affect nothing, experience nothing, and, in fact ARE nothing.- An embryo has no brain.
=> an embryo isn't a human person, and as such has no right, on the contrary of the mother, and as such abortion is not only acceptable, but moral.

2) - Everyone has the most fundamental right of enjoying the integrity of his own body.
- You can't be asked to relinquish your integrity on your body, even at the expense of someone's life (you have the right to kill a rapist in self-defense ; you can't be forced to give up an organ to save the life of another one)
=> even if an embryo was a human person (which it isn't), it would not have the right to force you to host it, and you would still enjoy full freedom over what you do with your body. As such, abortion is acceptable.


Here, now let's the backward anti-abortionists use fallacies and insincerity trying to find counter-arguments that prove nothing. As usual.

So, if I am in a coma, I am nothing?

 

[Akka]

If you are in coma, your brain is still here, right ?
It was here before (so you already have the ability to think, feel and emote), so you are, in fact, a person.

Unlike an embryo, who had never a brain before having one.

 

[hawai_74]

Women have a commitment when they concieve a child. They can choose whether to concieve or not.

Hmm, i think it's impossible to tell him whatsoever, he tries to be God and his ears & eyes are closed. Why begin a discussion?

 

[PHSikes]

I guess I'm just your average Republican/Conservative who believes in Capitol Punishment (the taking of a life) and Anti-Abortion (the keeping of a life), one deserves a chance the other wasted it.


Bye

 

[Stapel]

I guess I'm just your average Republican/Conservative who believes in Capitol Punishment (the taking of a life) and Anti-Abortion (the keeping of a life), one deserves a chance the other wasted it.


Bye

Seems fair!

But the whole thing with abortion is: from what moment does one deserve a chance?

It strikes me as somewhat far-fetched to consider a two cell embryo as 'one that deserves a chance'.

I tend to analyse this phenomenon from the mother's point of view. First of all, I think a government has no simple right to tell people what to do and what not to do with there bodies. In some cases (arguable), a government can try to prohibit things, when they are proven harmful and dangerous (thinking of harddrugs), but a government should not interfer with human bodies in general. Especially not, when this government is driven by religious opinions.

So, a pregnant woman (just as any human) has a right to control her body, ans see for herself what is the best thing to do.
But a human being has the rigth to live.

So there comes a point where one right overrules the other. On what basis do we decide where that moment is?
To me, it seems pretty obvious that the sperm-hits-the-egg moment is a bit early....

 

[AVN]

Wow, talk about beating a dead horse...

Repeating the same arguments over and over because the anti-abortions refuse to compute them in their head is tiresome, so I'll make it short.

It's the first time I participate in an abortion debate, so it isn't a dead horse for me
I have mixed feelings about abortion. In fact I'm undecided at the moment if I'm pro abortion or against.

1) - Your feelings, your thoughts and your emotions are created/perceived because you have a brain.
- If you neither feel, emote nor think, you affect nothing, experience nothing, and, in fact ARE nothing.
- An embryo has no brain.

I agree that initially an embryo has no brain, but after a certain period it start to get feelings/experiences. Can we consider it life at that moment ?
And can we consider it life which need to be protected ?

=> an embryo isn't a human person, and as such has no right, on the contrary of the mother, and as such abortion is not only acceptable, but moral.

At the moment the embryo start to get feelings I think (at least at the moment) that we can consider it a human person. A human person which has some (maybe restricted) rights.

2) - Everyone has the most fundamental right of enjoying the integrity of his own body.
- You can't be asked to relinquish your integrity on your body, even at the expense of someone's life (you have the right to kill a rapist in self-defense ; you can't be forced to give up an organ to save the life of another one)

Agreed.

=> even if an embryo was a human person (which it isn't), it would not have the right to force you to host it, and you would still enjoy full freedom over what you do with your body. As such, abortion is acceptable.

Here I disagree. At the moment an embryo becomes a human person it receives some rights. The right for life. And even if it's the guest in the life of another body I don't believe that the host has he right to kill the baby under any circumstances. At that moment there is IMHO (in most cases) no difference with a normal murder.

 

[Vilati Timmadar]

@zjl56:

I want to ask people why do they not object to 40 million dying? A huge of those babies if they were given the chanve to live would be average citizens.
...
I have a right to say a women can't kill. Most abortions are done for convienence. Life overrules convienence.

I would like to give the discussion another direction.

Here in Germany abortion is more or less legal but with many "rocks" to pass on the way. It takes a lot of consulting with doctors and public offices and and and...
So people don't do it or they go to the Netherlands for one day and do it there.

That led to another awful thing.
Many children (about a hundred or more per year) are killed by their parents in the first years of their life. They are thrown into the trash, they are left alone until they starve to death or they're beaten until they die. I'm not kidding, this is reality.

So, I ask you: Is it better to let a child suffer for its whole, short life - or is it better for it not to be born in the first place?

 

[Akka]

At the moment the embryo start to get feelings I think (at least at the moment) that we can consider it a human person. A human person which has some (maybe restricted) rights.

At this point, it's no more an embryo, it's at least a fetus (the distinction being precisely that one has no nervous system, while the other starts to build its own).

Here I disagree. At the moment an embryo becomes a human person it receives some rights. The right for life. And even if it's the guest in the life of another body I don't believe that the host has he right to kill the baby under any circumstances. At that moment there is IMHO (in most cases) no difference with a normal murder.

Yes, there is : the fetus is in the womb of the mother. It uses her body. She has full right to have total decision over what's done with her body. As such, her rights supercede every right could have the fetus, even IF it was a full-fledged human being.
Of course, you can argue that in this case, there could be an artificial premature birth so that the fetus isn't killed, but still out of the body of the mother. That's acceptable in my book.

 

[Stapel]

@zjl56:


Here in Germany abortion is more or less legal but with many "rocks" to pass on the way. It takes a lot of consulting with doctors and public offices and and and...
So people don't do it or they go to the Netherlands for one day and do it there.

It is not that you can order an abortion in the local supermarket here in The Netherlands!
I think you need an ok of 1 social consultant and 1 doctor. Abortion, because otherwise your already booked vacation to the Costa del Sol should be cancelled, is most certainly not allowed here!

 

[Vilati Timmadar]

@Stapel:

True, but it's still easier than in Germany.
I hope you weren't offended - was not my intention! Sorry.

 

[yoshi74]

I want to ask people why do they not object to 40 million dying? A huge of those babies if they were given the chanve to live would be average citizens.

40 Million Kids not wanted.
Maybe kids from kids (people less than 18 years, maybe ~13).
Kids from people who could not afford a kid.
Kids from people who don't a kid at all and don't wan't to raise a kid.

There is a low chance that a lot of these kids would be valuable for a society. Most of them would raise as problem-kids and will grow into problem-people.

Abortion is no murder. It is the free right of every woman to choose whether they want a kid or not. Belief me, most woman who choose to do so don't do it light-heartly. And those who do it easy and without any regret (maybe even several times) would serve really bad as mother.

There are enough people on this world. We don't need numbers for every price. To many kids where risen by people who don't really care about their childs. Often these kids will cause problems later. Many more of these kind will not serve well any society.

I favor less kids around, who where risen by parents who really care about them and help them to grow up.

 

[Stapel]

@Stapel:

True, but it's still easier than in Germany.
I hope you weren't offended - was not my intention! Sorry.

I am not offended! I just wanted to avoid people thinking abortion is our national hobby.

I cannot point out often enough that we have the lowest abortion figures in the world, while having the most liberal laws on it.

 

[yoshi74]

I cannot point out often enough that we have the lowest abortion figures in the world, while having the most liberal laws on it.

But try to teach this to the people who will forbid anything they don't like and trying to tell other ones how to live.
People who don't trust himself don't trust others.