WoC Lite(made for merging)

[mamba]

The first is minor - before WoC a player could use the modmods without having to edit any XML now they can't. This will mean that some will not use the modmods because it's to hard or frightening.

I assume you are talking about the MLFs here. These are ONLY needed if you have to load the directories in a certain order, if you do not, you do not need them.

If you do need them in a subdirectory (for load order), you also need them in the parent directory however.

So whether they are needed at all depends on the mod and your directory structure. Even when they are needed, what keeps the modmodder from providing the required MLFs so the players do not need to edit them ?

The second is a bit more of a problem. If a modmod is making changes to a building the XML in the modmod's folder can be additive in certain cases. For example you can't change the bonuses a building gives only supplement them. So if you want to drop the culture provided by a building and give commerce instead you have to change the mod's buyildings XML as well as your modmod's. As you can guess with three or more independent modmodders doing stuff this can cause nightmares in merging these mods. A work around may be to put appropriate negative modifiers in your XML but I have not yet checked out this aspect.

This is no different from regular xml either, if 3 definitions for the same building exist, one wins, the other loose. With WoC they might coexist, depending on the changes you do. They can coexist as long as you do not want to remove / change entries from a 'list' (only add to them) or change single values.

Yes, there is room for improvement here to allow for removal / replacement of existing entries in lists.

 

[johny smith]

Well I am hoping we can just get one good MLF file in modules at least so players do not have to change any xml.

Modders need to start name their folders something that clearly names what they have I think. It will help instead of using custom religions or custom buildings folder. If they give the folder a distinct name it will help it I think. Less people all piling into a folder. Or either make broad folders for name to organize the pieces and load within a subfolder.

Just ideas anyway, but right now this is being worked on. So to save players from modding the xml anyway.

 

[OrionVeteran]

You have the wrong "CIV4BuildingsSchema.xml" is why. You have the WoC Full schema in now. I cut all of that extra stuff out. Each schema is different in these files depending on what has been added to the dll. I made sure to place the schema in the xml folder for everything corresponding to the build it is. So which ever version you are using copy the CIV4BuildingsSchema.xml from assets/xml/buildings in and it will work. Sorry I should of gave some more documentation to explain.

1. The "CIV4BuildingsSchema.xml" fixed the problem. Thanks!

2. I am going to attempt to create separate modules for Wonders, Units and Buildings from my favorite mods.

3. If I may be so bold, I would like to ask for you to include the SDK from NeverMind's Mountains mod in the RecDCM mod.

Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11815

Orion Veteran

 

[johny smith]

No problem.

Well I am not going to add anything for a while. I will wait for glider to do his merge. After that I am hoping we can get all on the same page. And want to it to be agreed by everyone.

If you want ask glider though. He might agree to it. It looks nice.

Just hoping we can all have one dll that can be shared by many mods.

 

[keldath]

johny,
how about using the sdk you created for me,
as you know,
it includes mylon, mountains, hidden tech,
city size preqeq for building, city size limit, jeckel improvement mods,

i think that my sdk is the most extensive sdk that available today then any other mod here, could be an excellent basis for the one dll thing.

 

[johny smith]

Well I mean there is plenty of things I could think to add really. But the whole point is to keep small with the RevDCM. I just want us not to worry about testing all of the time.jdog and glider are always testing things. They will test it. I would just suggest taking it up with them. I mean there are couple replacements of some of the things you listed that we have in the WoC Full that might even be better. But I just again want everyone to agree on it.

I just want us on one page. Then bring it up with all of them. If they agree great.

 

[mamba]

Well, personally I think it should have WoC moddability (obviously), AutoAI, Solver's unoffcial patch (plus whatever fixes have been made to that) and Better BtS AI.

That is the foundation, nothing more.

On top of that I might care for SuperSpies, RevDCM (personally I do not care much for the Revolutions part), and Influence Driven War. But that imo should either all be configurable so it can be turned off, or there should be two seperate version, the plain core and the extended one.

I will have to give the Lite version a try, my mod should work flawlessly with it since I do not use any of the new tags and there is no overlap between the Lite version and Div_WoC.
When I just threw them together however, the custom unit art did not show, much like it initially did not for WoC either, because I split up the *_CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos.xml of one civ into mutliple files (at least that is the reason why WoC initially had troubles with my custom units, it got fixed before 1.0, so I am surprised Lite seems to have the same issue). So I guess I will have to investigate a bit to see if I made a mistake somplace when I merged with WoCLite (doubt it though).

 

[OrionVeteran]

No problem. Well I am not going to add anything for a while. I will wait for glider to do his merge. After that I am hoping we can get all on the same page. And want to it to be agreed by everyone. If you want ask glider though. He might agree to it. It looks nice.

Mountains are a go in about 2 weeks. glider said wants to perfect and finish his current merge first.

Orion Veteran

 

[johny smith]

@mamba

I am not sure what has changed if anything. I am using the latest modular loading changes in the SVN.

@OrionVeteran

Well there you go. Man that was simple. I wish everything was that simple.

 

[mamba]

@mamba

I am not sure what has changed if anything. I am using the latest modular loading changes in the SVN.

Was my mistake, had a mistake in my latest MLF (had added the civ but forgot to add its unit style to the respective MLF) and thanks to the dependencies this meant it fell back to the regular units for that civ - and of all the civs there are I had to use that one when testing

 

[johny smith]

@mamba

Well I feel relieved I did not screw anything up. Oh mamba I plan to basically roll the basic version of a WoC Lite just into RevDCM. I may think of some extended version beyond to always being tested more or less with new things from the WoC Full.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Johny smith,

I have completed the conversion of the Shinto Religion into WoC (RevDCM) format. During testing, the audio entries in two files failed to work: Audio2DScripts.xml and AudioDefines.xml. No matter where I placed these files, within the Shinto Religion's list of folders, the sound failed to execute. I ended up adding the entries in the Audio folder under the XML section. The problem here is the entries are made in traditional XML and are not made in WoC format. Once the entries were placed there, in traditional XML, the sound worked perfectly.

It kind of defeats the purpose of creating a WoC module, if part of your XML is written in WoC format, while other entries have to be made in traditional XML. Is there a way to fix this so that the two audio files can be written in WOC format and placed in the modules section, where they really belong?

Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

 

[glider1]

@OrionVet
Yeah it's a bit sad about audio, but unfortunately audio xml cannot be modularised and must be merged into the mods audio XML as per the old days. However the sound files themselves can be included in the module. Apparently the problem is not in WoC but in BTS itself.

As for WoC sounds themselves, I completely concur that for some reason, religious WoC audio is dead, but not other types of audio such as unit audio. Still trying to understand it better.
Cheers.

 

[OrionVeteran]

@OrionVet
Yeah it's a bit sad about audio, but unfortunately audio xml cannot be modularised and must be merged into the mods audio XML as per the old days. However the sound files themselves can be included in the module. Apparently the problem is not in WoC but in BTS itself.

As for WoC sounds themselves, I completely concur that for some reason, religious WoC audio is dead, but not other types of audio such as unit audio. Still trying to understand it better.
Cheers.

Every WoC module should be separate and "completely self contained", so that adding a new unit, a new building, a new religion, etc; is a simple copy and paste operation. The goal is to elliminate the combining of different Mods entries in the same XML file. This audio problem utterly destroys the concept of WoC and is a real show stopper for me. I believe a way must be found to avoid mixing mod entries in traditional XML. I suspect it can be solved with changes to the SDK. We have brilliant SDK modders out there and the resolution of this issue should be a priority for the developers of WoC.

Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

 

[glider1]

Yes understand and agree OrionVeteran but I'd say that is what WoC wanted but unfortunately it could well be something fundamental in the BTS executable itself where there is a requirement for audio to be preloaded for some reason. It could simply be that WoC is a perfect idea in an imperfect world.

However the solution is reasonably simple. Modders (like you) could design their WoC mod with all the audio xml and sound files self contained in the WoC module in preparation for a solution to the audio situation.....

That solution is simply a utility executable that gamers execute every time they add a WoC module. That utility would automatically insert the audio xml into the mod xml. It only needs to be run once when a new WoC module is added. If the WoC module is removed, it doesn't matter if the mod still contains the audio XML, because if the module does not exist, the XML system will ignore the audio entry inside the mods XML.

This "utility" I think already exists. If it does not, we had better write one soon, otherwise WoC modules will continue to be written without audio xml self contained, which simply destroys the fundamental "self contained" premise of WoC.

So my feeling is this:
1) Already write WoC modules completely self contained in preparation for this "utility" executable when it is written. The XML system as it stands now will simply ignore the WoC audio XML and since it will also not find the audio definitions inside the mod XML, will simply mean that audio will be dead. HOWEVER, at least the WoC module is completely self contained, correct and otherwise fully functional.

2) Write this "utility" executable ASAP and finally complete the WoC concept in it's entirety.

Cheers.

EDIT:
This "utility" executable could also hypothetically take WoC to the next level by allowing python code to be preloaded as well from the modules folder.

 

[glider1]

Here is how the "installer" utility would look. The proposal is that it would sit inside the modules folder for every WoC compatible mod that is out there. It wouldn't matter if the installer were run repeatedly because all it would do is check whether the audio xml in the modules folder has already been combined with the mod/assets/xml/audio detail. It would also not matter if the installer were not run at all, because the WoC module will still work but for the exclusion of audio.
Cheers.

 

[johny smith]

I am all for a utility. I don't think I know what to write it in. If I could I would have already made one. Sorry I am just a noob when it comes to computer programming at this point.

Firaxis did not allow the audio xml to be modular as well of course. There is nothing that can be done about that.

 

[johny smith]

I am sending up one last file of the merge from before. It addresses some very small issues. If I do anymore it will need some added features.

https://worldofciv.svn.sourceforge..../Installer/RevDCM 1.02 WoC Lite Merge 0.7.zip

 

[TAfirehawk]

Every WoC module should be separate and "completely self contained", so that adding a new unit, a new building, a new religion, etc; is a simple copy and paste operation. The goal is to elliminate the combining of different Mods entries in the same XML file. This audio problem utterly destroys the concept of WoC and is a real show stopper for me. I believe a way must be found to avoid mixing mod entries in traditional XML. I suspect it can be solved with changes to the SDK. We have brilliant SDK modders out there and the resolution of this issue should be a priority for the developers of WoC.

Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

We addressed this with Firaxis....it is in the EXE, not the DLL, sorry. Only Firaxis can make audio modular in the full modular format used in the WoC.

 

[OrionVeteran]

We addressed this with Firaxis....it is in the EXE, not the DLL, sorry. Only Firaxis can make audio modular in the full modular format used in the WoC.

What about the possibility of making an Exe installer utility file as glider1 recommended above?