Wonder Elimination Thread

[NicTeos]

If you burn many GPs in the beginning when the Louvre doesn't give you a bigger GA than Taj then you are doing something wrong. First GPs can serve well better than a GA at least before the Ind era, excepted some very specific situations where you can win before Archeology tech.

Besides of Great Generals I also burn Artists and Merchants for GA. Except some very specific situation, like staying small and haven't get any GP until louvre, the normal duration of a GA through GP is pretty close to minimum. In a big empire, when the limiting factor is production, you will want to be at GA all the time. At the time of louvre I sometimes also begin to burn Great Scientists and in very rare scenarios also Great Engineers for the minimum GA duration. Normally I have Chichen Itza. I'm quite fast always the biggest nation and growth and growth. I'm big - not small. Besides Chichen Itza and Taj Mahal the other GP wonders have a dimishing effect. And louvre comes to a time, when I'm pretty close at minimum GA-GP duration and the game is practically won. If I have Louvre or not, doesn't matter. I would see louvre as the second GP-Wonder which is going to lose.

And I would say you are doing something terrible wrong, when Taj Mahal has less effect than Louvre.

 

[Tabarnak]

What else would you use the ever-abundant Great Generals for?

I forgot...AI is incompetent in sp games...and can lose a lot of units... You very rarely get 3 GGs in mp games. Sometimes 2 of them but not much. In fact, you can burn 2 GPs and be even in term of GA turns compared to Taj. The Louvre is usually good for a science victory if GPs are not used for a cultural victory. In warmonger games, you can win the game before Archeology, before a GA from Louvre can be appealing.

 

[Tabarnak]

Besides of Great Generals I also burn Artists and Merchants for GA. Except some very specific situation, like staying small and haven't get any GP until louvre, the normal duration of a GA through GP is pretty close to minimum. In a big empire, when the limiting factor is production, you will want to be at GA all the time. At the time of louvre I sometimes also begin to burn Great Scientists and in very rare scenarios also Great Engineers for the minimum GA duration. Normally I have Chichen Itza. I'm quite fast always the biggest nation and growth and growth. I'm big - not small. Besides Chichen Itza and Taj Mahal the other GP wonders have a dimishing effect. And louvre comes to a time, when I'm pretty close at minimum GA-GP duration and the game is practically won. If I have Louvre or not, doesn't matter. I would see louvre as the second GP-Wonder which is going to lose.

And I would say you are doing something terrible wrong, when Taj Mahal has less effect than Louvre.

Why running Great merchants and great artists? Seem a waste of the GP pool. From many GGs i can understand, but if you get a ton of GGs it's because you are going for domination or sit down on a big big empire(and late in the game) that a GA or not doesnt make a big difference about a win or loss.

The Louvre is especially good for a science victory and you are aiming for the best time possible. His biggest advantage come from the fact you can start the GA anytime you want.

Running GMs and GArtists is wrong. Burning GGs for a dom. win or getting a large empire is good.

 

[civnoob13]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 24
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 30
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 23
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 35
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Great Lighthouse 0
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 7
Kremlin 7
Louvre 16
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 32

Great Lighthouse is nearly always useless for me and this game is really in need of some more wonders being eliminated. The sistine's culture boost is always very useful.

 

[filli_noctus]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 24
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 31
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 23
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 35
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 5
Kremlin 7
Louvre 16
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 32

Same reason as last time, Himeji = awesome defensive wonder
Gardens = effect practically useless at that stage of the game + AI loves it too much

 

[Agent Cooper]

With all the love going towards Himeji Castle, I really have to try it out in my next game. The thing is that at that stage in the game, I usually have a couple of nice wonders to choose from but only time/resources/GE to build one of them and that's usually the Porcelain Tower.

Great read in this thread

 

[The A.K.T]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 24
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 31
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 23
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 35
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 6
Kremlin 7
Louvre 14
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 32

i the start the hanging gardens is very useful. i dont understand how it have so many dislikers

 

[gozpel]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 24
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 31
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21 -2
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 36 +1
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 6
Kremlin 7
Louvre 14
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 32

I like the extra culture Stonehenge gives and Pentagon is something I never needed to build.

Moderator Action: Please remember to provide reasoning for your votes. Warned for spam.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[civnoob13]

remember to give a reason for your decisions!

 

[NicTeos]

The Louvre is especially good for a science victory and you are aiming for the best time possible. His biggest advantage come from the fact you can start the GA anytime you want.
Running GMs and GArtists is wrong. Burning GGs for a dom. win or getting a large empire is good.

GA's are good for every victory type, and normally I want to start GA with GP instant. You can chose the time, but the time is normally the same turn. So it doesn't matter which kind of victory nor which source of GA - I just want GA all the time. And again size, and the better effect of GA-use of GMer/GArt than for something different comes quite fast. GA scales with size, other use of GP don't scale. And game ends with a victory, before I execute the maximum-principle . I have some ressources and want the most return.

And being big has only one disadvantage : Happiness , so Hanging gardens gets my 3rd vote. And downvote Kremlin again - same reason : best defense is the offensive.
( and maybe it's really good, when the ai's goes hard for them. I try to build the hanging Gardens not because it is easy, but because it is hard , and it is good )

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 24
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 31
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 36
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 7
Kremlin 5
Louvre 14
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 32

 

[Bezurn]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 24
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 36
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 7
Kremlin 3
Louvre 14
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 32

Upvote - Hemji Castle. Good wonder for a culture victory.
Downvote - Kremlin. Good wonder for a culture victory, but not as good as Hemji

 

[RealHuhn]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 25
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 36
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 7
Kremlin 3
Louvre 14
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 30

Upvote - Big Ben: +25% discount combined with Mercantilism is awesome for some unique rushbuying strategies and it comes at an age where I actually have the time and production to build a wonder
Downvote - Pyramids. Too expensive for its age. I just build an additional worker and get the same results. Can't compete with Oracle/Stonehenge/Great Library

 

[Save_Ferris]

The Kremlin's effects aren't really better for defense than building up tons of units. And Stonehenge is necessary for culture, as it can double culture if made early on.

For the same reason,

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 25
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 36
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 7
Kremlin 1
Louvre 14
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 30

 

[TimeWeaver]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 25
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 38
Taj Mahal 15
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 7
Kremlin 0 OUT!!!
Louvre 14
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 30

Yet again I vote up Stonehenge, +8 culture through the millennia is a hotbed for any kind of victory goal.
For the down-vote I agree with the two posters just above, Kremlin is outclassed by Himeji. It is simply overrated for the most part.

 

[civnoob13]

Why can't I edit my OP anymore? i still have 23 rankings or whatever it is left to put on!

 

[The_Quasar]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 25
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 38
Taj Mahal 13
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 7
Kremlin 0 OUT!!!
Louvre 15
Oracle 22
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 30

Taj Mahal only gives a Golden Age, for too many hammers
Louvre gives 2 GAs, possibly 2 Golden Ages, but possibly a lot more

 

[spider1]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 25
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 39 + 1
Taj Mahal 13
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 7
Louvre 15
Oracle 20 - 2
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 30

Stonehenge is good for everyone no matter what type of game they are playing. Getting those extra culture points that early in the game really help out a lot.

I downgraded the Oracle because since I use policy saving, I never have a realistic chance to build it before before I start saving up culture points so I can open up Freedom later. Now, if the bug is fixed so that the Oracle will only give you one free policy instead of making you use up all your culture points when you build it, I wouldn't downgrade it. But, the bug is there.

 

[bryanw1995]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 25
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 13
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 40
Taj Mahal 13
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 5
Louvre 15
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 30

Stonehenge is available very early and can have a big impact on just about any game. Hanging gardens probably isn't terrible but I have literally only built it once, and that was just to get the achievement.

 

[oledavy]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 25
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 11 (-2)
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 40
Taj Mahal 13
Forbidden Palace 17
Great Library 19 (+1)
Hagia Sophia 22
Hanging Gardens 5
Louvre 15
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 30

Machu Picchu - Too insignificant of an effect, too specific of a building requirement, and overall just not something you should prioritize when you should be building markets, workshops everywhere to get your empire up and running.

Great Library - Great for catching up with the AI's tech lead on the higher difficulties, can be used for the powerful CS slingshot to bring about explosive city growth.

 

[fmlizard2]

Angkor Wat 18
Big Ben 25
Chichen Itza 28
Cristo Redentor 22
Eiffel Tower 12
Himeji Castle 32
Machu Picchu 11
Notre Dame 9
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 22
Statue of Liberty 25
Stonehenge 40
Taj Mahal 13
Forbidden Palace 15
Great Library 19
Hagia Sophia 23
Hanging Gardens 5
Louvre 15
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 30

Cheers to the Hagia Sophia. We give props to those wonders that give a single great person or free tech. Why not take the one that could give you 3-4 of them the rest of the game?

Jeers to the Forbidden Palace. You really have to have 10+ cities to start making this thing worthwhile. Only really relevant for domination play and only gives one crummy great artist point. You are probably better off just chucking up a couple colosseums and leaving it at that.