jimbob27 said:
Calm down for a second, take a big breath, count to ten and stop hitting me with your handbag.
Well firstly it was a handbag full of bricks.
Secondly I'm sorry I was hitting you a little harder than expected. You got some of the heat from Consumerism thread as your logic seemed too close to that of my opponents.
And lastly I'm kind of happy we can have some sort of discussion. Your first post didn't seem to be very deep (well as was mine, but I know my style) and now I see some ideas. Well it only proves once again that OT is full of people I dont know.
I reffered to mother nature in the poetic sence. I could have just said nature, or I could have just have easily have said fate, or "the natural cycle of things." I wasn't talking about some pagan god or anything.
I do know what you said and why you said that. It just seemed funny right after the "drama queen" comment.
As far as the statement satan doesn't exist. Sure, I can't say 100% that thats true, but I'm applying Occam’s Razor. The simplest theory is usually the correct one. Are we to believe all the stuff written in the bible about humans being here to take part in some battle between good and evil? Told to us in a book that has been revised and changed several hundred times since it was first written? The Onus is on the believers to prove their concept is true, not the other way round. I see no proof or evidence for any of the stuff in the bible. I could suggest that there are giant invisible octopusses walking amongst us right now. You wouldn't believe me though, would you?
Good argument for a religious thread. However all majour modern religions have centuries of "work" done in terms of perfecting their faith, answering always existing questions and keeping up the spirit of the old traditions.
History (my hobby) shows that when there is a decline of morals in society and lack of faith in basic principles (along with... lets just say excessive liberalism) society fails. Call it the coming of the Satan or general degradation of society, but it is a rule that is proven by experience. Think of Roman Republic in its last 200 years or the Roman Empire in its decline. This state of the mind is hapenning now almost globaly. Religious texts as well (not only the Bible which seems to be the only source you find worty) point to the time of about 30-50 years from now. Signs described in phrophecies such as some scientific discoveries are there and it is kind of scary if you ask me.
You see to have quite an overly inflated sence of self importance. Firstly you're saying the world will end, but now you seem to have changed your mind and said human civilisation is coming to an end. Which one do you mean? There is far far more to the world than the human race. We're just a tiny blip in the history of the world. It's incredibly egotistical to class the world and the human race as one and the same.
I would not call it a sence of sell importance. I just know that I dont want to compare myself to Joe next door (who is an honorable man no doubt, but my desires go a little futher than understanding what I would want for lunch. I want to and do have bigger concerns than that). Enough about it.
World, humanity, Earth are (I repeat again) sometimes to be considered as synonims. "Human civilization" can be added to the list. I was talking about our civilization as we know it. The reason I was saying it the way I did is because our society will not only go down itself, but it will take most of the ecosystem with it. Thus even if it is egoistic or not, end of human society of now will also correspond to and end of a disgnificant decline of Earth's ecosystem. I hope I dont have to go into detail on how humans affect ecosystem, feed from it and drain it every day...
I'm sure we're in agreement that some point there will be some sort of cataclysmic event that'll wipe a lot of the people off the earth, but it certainly won't be the end of the world, and I very much doubt it'll even be the end of the human race. We're the most adaptable species this planet has ever seen, and our ancestors have survived super volcanoes and ice ages. All the evidence points towards Humans being able to survive such a cataclysmic disaster.
I suggest you read a book called "Macroscope". This science fiction book has about 50 pages on why and how a consumer society will end and end the planet will them. I have serious doubts that humanity will preserve itself to the same degree as to enjoy the benefits we have no. Even if we survive, the technological and culture loss will be infixable. I dont think I want to live in a society after that catastrophe we are coming to. I dont belive science or human adaption can solve everything. Cycle of desctruction is too fast for the science and industry to adapt.
So.. your three arguments are as follows.
Not really... I posted a very simplistic list just to illustrate that from my experience even different fields point to a close catastrophe. The points themselves were really simplified.... I dont think they in their current from are worth your rebuttal, but okay...
1. Satan is comming soon.
People have been saying this since the middle ages. If you believe the Jews, they'll tell you that the messiah has yet to come, so we've still got him to look forward to, before theres any mention of the antichrist. If you believe the Christians, well, they're saying satan is comming, but then Jesus came 2000 years ago, and he didn't solve all the worlds problems, did he? Are you suggesting that satan is more powerful than god, and he'll somehow have such an influence the Anti-christ will have stronger negative effect than the positive effect Jesus had?
I'm merely suggesting that from a religious point of view (in this case - Christian) bad times are coming soon and even if somehow the Jesus effect balances out what Satan might do I still dont want to go through that time...
2. Earth is finite.
Sure, we'll probably eventually mine the planet clean, but hows that going to destroy the world, or even humanity? We'll just have to stop driving cars, building stuff, they'll be mass famine in the cities, but the country folk will still survive. Humans need food, water, Fire, and shelter to survive. When the planet is mined clean, all of these things will still be around in abundance.
Again... we might survive the collapse. We might even have a few cows and fields left to feed us. But if there's a chance to save us all (technology, culture, population) then why not make some changes as to avoid the economical disaster? Again this has more relevance in "consumerism" thread, but it is still valid.
As for the countryside surviving... I think you underestimate the effect globalization and panic will create in a few decades. Safe heavens will be overrun and few thigns will be left standing. Look at US Mexican wall - a shadow of things to come. I may exaggerate, but the spirit of that collapse is already here..... global climate chages, cruel religious wars (with modern technology), ecological problems.... all of that is new and still only a shadow of how bad things might be if we continue on this course.
3. Humans are bastards.
Well, I'm in complete agreement over this one, but the strongest and most ruthless bastards will always thrive at the expense of the weak. Thats how nature works.
This one was more of a joke point. If it had any meaning it would be that humans (uneducated ones) would try and follow their own interest even if they knew that if they didn't - all would be saved.
(now i see something with "Islam:resistance & reform")
