Worst Random Events

[Kesshi]

You are still talking about the Vedic Aryans. All the other barbarian events come well after you can build axemen and spearmen, and they counter all the other invasions except the axeman invasion, which they sort of counter.

You say "well after you can build axemen and spearman" and I say "well after you discover Bronze Working." After all, the discovery of Bronze Working is no guarantee of having any Copper.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

I don't understand the reason for such an argument. If you feel Events add flavor to the game, play with them on. If you don't like them for whatever reason, just turn them off.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Funny isn't it, that the bolded part was my entire point. Indeed, unlike what you argued before, events are entirely separate from skill just like every other random part of the game. It's not even the random component with the greatest effect on gameplay and your odds of victory, (with the sole exception of the early archer barbarian invasion) with starting terrain, resource distribution, and your neighbors all having greater effect. We are also not playing chess here. Randomness is built into the very nature of the game.

No, there's an important difference you are missing. You can plan against neighbors starting from when they meet you (usually ~ 10 turns or less if they're materially close). You can compensate a start by selecting the proper tech path and expansion rate.

- You can not adequately prep vedic aryans without playing poorly should they not appear.
- You can not adequately guess the extreme windfall of tower shields should you get them, and they can make ill-advised rushes palatable (for example, winning odds for units that would otherwise have losing odds)
- You can not meaningfully adjust to a -1 or -3 diplo event when pursuing a diplomatic victory. Those events in positive can hand you games you don't deserve.
- The bermuda triangle can result in an instant loss.

Others have point out other events that can lead to loss even if the player plans quite well otherwise. These are things that do not happen frequently enough for the player to get returns from insuring against them. It's a sucker's bet to prepare for them, the odds of them happening against the cost to prepare for them (if possible) are too low. But when some of them happen, they screw you. This is not comparable to the other factors you imply. It is somewhat comparable to very early battles where the # of units is small and statistically improbable outcomes can happen enough to matter. Events are not comparable to RNG battles otherwise: collateral damage is fixed, and the odds against losing when well-prepared with siege or a good # are astronomical.

Notice that we are not saying this without some basis: BUFFY (the HoF mod) deliberately changes some event pre-reqs and eliminates others outright. I would argue some of the events left in are bad for balance, but the HoF guys probably like them since they also give a chance to up score with luck, which is perfect for game spamming to get one good outcome.

 

[Deckhand]

It is too bad this thread was hijacked.
OP:

What's the worst luck you've had with random events? I just had 3 forests and a pasture destroyed, and I had only built a single worker and settler (and the pasture was the only improvment I had).

It might have been fun reading about the bad luck people had encountered.
Yes, random events are unbalanced and too punishing; and you should play with them off. Some people enjoy having them on. Yes, the whole argument goes away if On wasn't the default.
But this has been discussed many times.
Well, I suppose so has the OP's topic. And this is a hot button topic.

Still, is it possible to discuss bad luck without digressing into whether the events should exist?

 

[r_rolo1]

You can change your strategy to avoid those events, just go for an early victory, get the AP yourself or put more effort into diplomacy. There're definately strategies that can lead to victory no matter what (except barbarians), so choosing to use the more dangerous paths is your own problem if your only aim is to win.

The phrase I emphatized is simply nuts, atleast if you are playing a level that is minimally competitive to you....I am a Immortal/Deity player and already lost Monarch games because of things happening in the other side of the world before I even knew the rest of the world existed in Monarch and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one having that kind of experience. OTOH, if you know a strategy to win always on Civ IV, you are definitely the most gifted person in here ( since I never seen someone else making that statement ).... Can you share?

Second, the AP win/lose has very little to do with diplomacy when you aren't a candidate. And it is not always possible to manouver the diplomacy between two other civs, you know....

Third, are you really suggesting that the AP is a must build for avoiding the outcome I stated? Said in other words, are you saying to build the AP in all of the games just because of one event, even if that risks you to lose the game in other way ( remember, the AP will be of the state religion you are running in the turn of finish )? BTW, are you actually suggesting that building a 400 hammers wonder ( normal speed ) with no speeding resource is actually a counter for a possible event outcome?

 

[DMOC]

TMIT is correct on the barb uprising event ... not sure why people are arguing with him.

 

[bestrfcplayer]

1. The Hurricane event

2. The barb uprising event

 

[binhthuy71]

The game seems to hate my tile improvements. I have had the same pasture wiped out three times by tornadoes. The same for farms. This is not just in one game, it happens in about one-fourth of them. It's not crippling, it's just a pain in the neck because I tend to run a minimal number of workers.
On the other hand, some random events are crippling and even contrary to normal game mechanics: I've had the Barbarian Horde event occur on maps that were completely fogbusted. As TMIT observed, there's no sensible way to prepare for something like that. If Monty or one of the other wolves is my next door neighbor then I prepare accordingly. I'm sure not going to build the Great Wall (Particularly if I'm not Ind and don't have stone) when I'm the sole occupant of a small continent on the off chance that the Vedic Aryans or a Barbarian Horde may appear.
The concept of random events is a good one in a game as rich as Civ. None of them should be capable of making or breaking a particular game. Getting a +1 commerce for having parrots in a jungle square is fine, having a pasture wiped out is okay. Anything much beyond that is overkill.

 

[obsolete]

So tell me, what has a bigger impact on your game, a crappy start, or a forge burning down? As a STRONG player, you no doubt refuse to reroll after an unfortunate start where you only have 2 tundra deer and a beaver in your BFC, poor expansion opportunities and Montezuma and Catherine are your closest neighbors. Starting with multiple gold or grassland gems in your BFC opens up just as many options as Tower Shields. And guess what, all of it is random. Come back and let me know if you decide to only play a single WBed map where everything is precisely balanced, using the same random seed each time to avoid different hut pops or losing your warrior early on to a bear. And if you play at a difficulty level where your entire game is on a precipice and failing to get the collosus means defeat, having one less corn in your start would have killed you just as effectively.

Comparing a poor start to game-breaking events is like comparing apples to oranges. They are not the same.

Now, no one is claiming that getting a really horsehockey start is fun, but lets get a bit into detail on this first since it’s interesting nevertheless.

First of all, no one is SUPPOSED to get a horsehockey start. There was specific normalization in the algorithm (up to 80%) to ensure that there is no lop-sidedness. HOWEVER, we know as of the current patch it is broken. This is because getting a single cow plot bugs-up the algorithm and blocks you from getting your food resources. These problems have been known for a very long time, and is why forests can be so troublesome… getting these spammed means bad news often.

Now keep in mind, getting a really bad spot is a BUG, it is NOT supposed to happen. But getting game-breaking events, is indeed SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. It is SUPPOSED to be game-breaking, because it is working, and is NOT A BUG.

Now… to further add some points. In a not-so-hot start, any expert player will often move his first settler. Sometimes they will move them quite a few tiles if the terrain is bad enough (or other is just too good). A good player also knows with high accuracy what hidden resources he is going to pop and where.

Now, when it comes to your EVENTS, this is out of his hands. He is simply at the mercy of the Gods. If his slavery revolt will screw him next turn, then it will happen. There is no warning, no counter to this (unless you ignore the most important civic for the ENTIRE GAME!). He simply gets burned, and not a damn thing he can do about it (add in other nasty events too!).

I think this should clear up some of the contrast.

You wanted to know how a forge burning down can be game breaking? There are unlimited scenarios where this may happen, but lets invent one right now.

Deity player runs a Fractal map and begins his normal game. He finds out eventually, he is isolated, but does have LOTS of lakes and ocean tiles. One of his traits is financial, and so he deduces from his surroundings he only has a 65% chance to win the game with his current course of action.

However, he correctly ascertains, that if he were to get the Collosus, his chances could jump up to over 80%. A little more checking around through the screens leads him to conclude that he SHOULD be able to get the requirements & build with excess turns to spare before another AI grabs it.

Thus, he currently changes plans to what should give him the highest chance for victory and guns-it. Can you blame him? Then…. Low and behold he gets his Slave Revolt.. Followed by his Forge burning down.. (or add any other pesky events here).

By the time he recuperates, he finds out one of the other AI’s has just crossed over and he loses to a builder’s tie. Now, he is stuck with only a 5% chance of winning after all his efforts.

Yeah… I suppose that’s all the player’s fault now? Instead of going for %80+ to win, he should have stuck with the %65 JUST to be safe incase he got hit by those Game-Break-Events.

80 - 65 = 15%

A player makes a decision to gain 15% equity in his game, and instead of being rewarded, he is penalized and laughed at his hard-earned efforts lost to the dice-Gods.

I do not agree with such a system, do you?


--
Another killer forge event::

Oracle - - >> Metal-Casting - ->> Mids (sling shot)

(Forge Burns down) - - >> Absolute Disaster

End of story.

--
Ok, let’s built the Mids the hard way just to be safe::

Masonry self-destructs twice on us again due to the Gods and their unseen events…

Boom! Absolute Disaster.

End of story.


We can go on forever with these sad stories, but most people have already lived through them at least one time too many now.

 

[Mustakrakish]

The so called bermuda triangle event... happened to me twice in one game, in different locations. Also other events that destroy my improvements or buildings happen too much, sometimes 3 in a row. That's ridiculous, but kind of doesn't feel right to play with them turned off.

 

[Dumanios]

I don't like Slave Revolts,Buildings and Improvements being blown up/destroyed/wiped off the face the Earth/mythbustered and i hate,hate,hate,hate,hate the Goblins dumping there crap in my lands.

 

[Mustakrakish]

I never use slavery, is that stupid of me?

 

[bestsss]

That's ridiculous, but kind of doesn't feel right to play with them turned off.

Ohh yes, it does!

I never use slavery, is that stupid of me?

Immensely, baring OCC slavery is the best thing in the game.

 

[fizikis]

Having read this discussion I have come to conclusion that if a person plays this game with the intention of having fun then random events add to the enjoyment of the game for that particular person.

If, on the other hand, a person plays this game with the intention to win, achieve highest score, play the perfect game then random events reduce the enjoyment of the game for that particular person.

Former should play with random events turned on and latter should play with random events turned off. Neither should feel ashamed for their preferred style of play and neither should shame others for their chosen style of play.

Instead of arguing for or against the existence of the random events we should all collectively support the existence of a choice.

 

[Badtz Maru]

The Bermuda Triangle event is definitely nuts.

I've never had it, but after hearing about it I never put all my naval units in one stack and always anticipate that I might lose one of my stacks on the way.

 

[Onionsoilder]

Some of the worst events exist in mods, but for vanilla I would say the bermuda triangle one.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Ohh yes, it does!


Immensely, baring OCC slavery is the best thing in the game.

OCC? Lost me...
So I guess I highly underestimated slavery then. It's just that whenever I play, all I see is slave revolt here, slave revolt there... AI always use it and it seems that they get those revolts an awful lot. That's mainly the reason slavery wasn't attractive to me. Also I get a lot of crappy starts so sacrificing population that was pain in the arse to get didn't seem like as good idea...
Maybe it's just me, but have anyone noticed that you have higher possibility to get crappy start when you're using european civ than for example Egypt, China etc?

 

[Silu]

OCC? Lost me...
So I guess I highly underestimated slavery then. It's just that whenever I play, all I see is slave revolt here, slave revolt there... AI always use it and it seems that they get those revolts an awful lot. That's mainly the reason slavery wasn't attractive to me. Also I get a lot of crappy starts so sacrificing population that was pain in the arse to get didn't seem like as good idea...
Maybe it's just me, but have anyone noticed that you have higher possibility to get crappy start when you're using european civ than for example Egypt, China etc?

I've heard that the slave revolt event was added purely because slavery was considered overpowered using it is a skill all by itself, there's plenty of good guides for it here such as this.

OCC is an abbreviation for One City Challenge, a custom game option where you can only have one city.

 

[Bushface]

I lost a couple of buildings when the Monsoon event hit a city - which was built on a desert hill to get Incense and Oil, and all tiles in its BFC were desert except for the one jungle tile needed for the event to trigger. And the message had the effrontery to say that the place was used to flooding ! Not even an oasis nearby. Tchah.

 

[mechaerik]

Maybe it's just me, but have anyone noticed that you have higher possibility to get crappy start when you're using european civ than for example Egypt, China etc?

It's just you.