WW2-Global
- Thread starter Rocoteh
- Start date
When I think about this, I think it is due to Firass. By the modding perspective, C3C seems more designed for Conquests, while C4 is more designed for full mods.
AlCosta,
Yes, I agree.
Main Posters are also of crucial importance.
There are not many of them at CIV 4 scenarios.
On WW2-Global:
I am thinking of ways to use the Stealth Attack option for
ground combat.
So far no creator has used this option in the editor to its full extent.
Rocoteh
Baldurslayer
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
- Messages
- 130
Perhaps these invisible sea to city attacks are already an example of ground combat stealth attacks, unfortunately the naval vesel always seems to loose
Oh another thing, the Panzer IV F2 can still traverse mountains.
All the best
Perhaps these invisible sea to city attacks are already an example of ground combat stealth attacks, unfortunately the naval vesel always seems to loose
Oh another thing, the Panzer IV F2 can still traverse mountains.
All the best
Baldurslayer,
I am considering to exchange the bombardment-factors for some
artillery-units with direct-attack factors.
A artillery unit with bombard 16 would then instead have attack 20,
defend 10 and stealth against infantry and artillery.
We know that AI is not able to use bombard-units in good way.
However the idea is simulate artillery.
This must not be simulated with bombardment
factors!
On Panzer IV F2:
OK I will fix the mountain-bug.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Also, I don't know if you saw:
A user, Skyer2, has "cracked the code" of the .exe to stop razing, and many other options. This is looking promising, and maybe he'll eventually over-ride the ConquestsEditor.exe file, and then thousands of possibilities are opened.
AlCosta,
Yes it looks very promising.
This can open ways that one earlier thought was closed forever.
Rocoteh
dferrill
Warlord
I had faith this would eventually happen. I allways thought it would be easier to crack the civ3 editor and code then it would be to create a civ 4 editor from scratch. we have very talented people here in this forum for civ 3.can you post a link to that post you found?
Baldurslayer
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
- Messages
- 130
So we will have some real artillery duels
and it will go a long way to make a better distinction between soft and hard targets. How about self propelled arty? But then again, they should better be considered as soft targets since they are too powerful to begin with.Your approach would open new ways to categorise artillery
class 1 - rocket arty - stealth attack against inf + arty
class 2 - tube arty - stealth attack against inf + arty and modest to low bombardment perhaps
class 3 - siege arty - !very! expensive + high attack values and stealth attack against ?fortifications? (probably not a category by itself?)
class 4 - self propelled arty - is it possible to make it retreat like other fast units but otherwise like tube arty
class 5 - mountain arty - very low bombard and can move through mountains without roads (this arty is so weak that they would surely loose in an direct attack with or without stealth)
Dear Skyer2, you may have earned yourself a promotion from demi-god to Sid!
(I know you can't hear / read me, but that is usually the case with prayers)
Rocoteh, may the “blessed exchequer” smile upon you for all your work with WW2-Global!
All the best
Baldurslayer
Baldurslayer,
"So we will have some real artillery duels and it will go a long way to make a better distinction between soft and hard targets. How about self propelled arty? But then again, they should better be considered as soft targets since they are too powerful to begin with."
Baldurslayer
Yes, if this will work as I hope it should give interesting results.
"Your approach would open new ways to categorise artillery
class 1 - rocket arty - stealth attack against inf + arty
class 2 - tube arty - stealth attack against inf + arty and modest to low bombardment perhaps
class 3 - siege arty - !very! expensive + high attack values and stealth attack against ?fortifications? (probably not a category by itself?)
class 4 - self propelled arty - is it possible to make it retreat like other fast units but otherwise like tube arty
class 5 - mountain arty - very low bombard and can move through mountains without roads (this arty is so weak that they would surely loose in an direct attack with or without stealth)"
Baldurslayer
This is all very good ideas. I will have them in mind when its time to
implement the new system.
"Rocoteh, may the “blessed exchequer” smile upon you for all your work with WW2-Global!"
Baldurslayer
Thank you.
The recent events have made me very optimistic concerning the future
for CIV 3. Its also very positive that interest for CIV 3 scenarios now
are much stronger then 1 year ago!
Best Regards
Rocoteh
"So we will have some real artillery duels and it will go a long way to make a better distinction between soft and hard targets. How about self propelled arty? But then again, they should better be considered as soft targets since they are too powerful to begin with."
Baldurslayer
Yes, if this will work as I hope it should give interesting results.
"Your approach would open new ways to categorise artillery
class 1 - rocket arty - stealth attack against inf + arty
class 2 - tube arty - stealth attack against inf + arty and modest to low bombardment perhaps
class 3 - siege arty - !very! expensive + high attack values and stealth attack against ?fortifications? (probably not a category by itself?)
class 4 - self propelled arty - is it possible to make it retreat like other fast units but otherwise like tube arty
class 5 - mountain arty - very low bombard and can move through mountains without roads (this arty is so weak that they would surely loose in an direct attack with or without stealth)"
Baldurslayer
This is all very good ideas. I will have them in mind when its time to
implement the new system.
"Rocoteh, may the “blessed exchequer” smile upon you for all your work with WW2-Global!"
Baldurslayer
Thank you.
The recent events have made me very optimistic concerning the future
for CIV 3. Its also very positive that interest for CIV 3 scenarios now
are much stronger then 1 year ago!
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
It would be interesting to see some direct fire weapons, as WW2 was the apex of conventional artillery development - the assault gun comes to mind as a unit that can fulfil this role, as do the light field guns (US and German 105mm, British 25 pounder).
I know I make very heavy use of artillery in my forays into WW2 global, as part of preparing the battlefield. The prospect of further developments here in newer versions is most encouraging.
(I am reminded of a rather bawdy Russian army comment along the lines of "Artillery is the King of War; Infantry is the Queen of Battle, and we all know what the king does to the queen!"
The obvious answer to me being: Play bridge with her)
The AI does not employ artillery, save when it has it as part of a really large force. However, I am somewhat leery of the notion of mutating the whole range of WW2 tube and rocket artillery into assault guns; there is no easy solution.
I am holding out hope that explorations of the exe may help the artillery conundrum in some manner.
I know I make very heavy use of artillery in my forays into WW2 global, as part of preparing the battlefield. The prospect of further developments here in newer versions is most encouraging.
(I am reminded of a rather bawdy Russian army comment along the lines of "Artillery is the King of War; Infantry is the Queen of Battle, and we all know what the king does to the queen!"
The obvious answer to me being: Play bridge with her)
The AI does not employ artillery, save when it has it as part of a really large force. However, I am somewhat leery of the notion of mutating the whole range of WW2 tube and rocket artillery into assault guns; there is no easy solution.
I am holding out hope that explorations of the exe may help the artillery conundrum in some manner.
Bob1475
Prince
Rocoteh -
Many changes in my life have reduced time for CIV and the time I had was on CIV4. Today, having been traveling for a month I returned to Civfanatics and noticed the posting on 2.3. Needless to say I will download and play although reports will be limited as my time is limited.
I thank you for the credit on 2.3 although I don't think it is deserved. After some play I will have to rewrite the read-me file as so much has changed. The elimination of Mobilization will dramatically change the game - perhaps more realistic but I fear not as much fun. Anyway, it is good to see you are still at it!
All the best.
Bob1475
Many changes in my life have reduced time for CIV and the time I had was on CIV4. Today, having been traveling for a month I returned to Civfanatics and noticed the posting on 2.3. Needless to say I will download and play although reports will be limited as my time is limited.
I thank you for the credit on 2.3 although I don't think it is deserved. After some play I will have to rewrite the read-me file as so much has changed. The elimination of Mobilization will dramatically change the game - perhaps more realistic but I fear not as much fun. Anyway, it is good to see you are still at it!
All the best.
Bob1475
Simon Darkshade,
I will probably not replace all bombardment-artillery with
the new system. This will by a step by step change to evaluate
who new factors will work.
How should one regard losses inflicted on attacking artillery-units
(with the new system)?
The answer is: Counterbattery-fire.
Thus I think such a losses will be realisic.
With regard to AI and artillery I think improvements still are far away
in time. However one problem with AI and the "new" artillery is that AI may
choose to produce artillery units only.
Rocoteh
Bob1475,
I am glad to hear from you again.
For sure you deserve the credit on 2.3.
I really appreciate if you rewrite the read-me file.
My impression after reading playtest-reports is that the fun-factor
have not been reduced.
Should it be otherwise I will make new changes.
Playing my scenarios shall not be boring!
Best Regards
Rocoteh
- Joined
- May 5, 2005
- Messages
- 10,089
Hi Rocoteh, yes I think this is realistic. I used the same arguments for the arty settings in my mod. Additionally to the arty settings you mentioned here (please don´t forget stealth attack for AT-guns against tanks) I gave some of my guns additionally to a high attack factor a "range-zero-bombardement" and the collateral dammage flag. This has some interesting results: An attack by such an arty unit not only can take out the enemy unit. The "range-zero-bombardement" in this case can work offensivly and take out an improvement in addition to the unit. For some assault guns (Sturmgeschütz III) the "blitz flag" can do some nice effects.
And Rocoteh, your thoughts that the AI tends to only produce these units are also very realistic. Therefore in my mod these arty units can only be autoproduced by improvements. As the limit for improvements at time is 256 for Civ 3 this means, there could not be too much different arty units in my mod.
Baldurslayer
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
- Messages
- 130
Perhaps because only 18 were ever manufacturedA few questions about your scenario.
1.Why don't you have StrumTiger in this scenario?
Oh yes, It was always a problem to get my Stugs to an Elite level and thus in defence situations the offensive tanks do the defending ...
Week 17 '40 Invaded Hainan and discovered the 3 damaged remaining BBs. My bombardment sunk them and 2 DD '39s, demolished 5 aircraft and 3 Inf leaving the city helpless. Left 2 Inf and sent the rest to Hong Kong with the same result! The 4 aircraft and 2 Inf in the city were demolished by bombardment and my 14 ground units are now the current defenders. The Japanese now have no BBs 23 CAs (new construction) and 2 CVs. A few destroyers, LSTs and 1 LC as well.
Week 18 thru Week 30 On going battle to maintain Hong Kong. Alas, my fighters are gone with no Japanese losses! I will concentrate on bringing FLAK to protect my units in the cities until I can get some competitive fighters. My BB Fleet is getting damaged by continuous air assault but they seem to kill more planes by AA then the Jap is producing. I will have to withdraw before I start to lose ships. Having 85 ships in one stack can only defend for so long. The British come to my "rescue" when they bring into the Phillipine Sea 6 KGVs, 4 CVs, 15 CLs, numerous DDs and 6 transports to invade Taiwan on week 20. This battle continues badly for the Jap but they do not lose complete control until Turn 29 when the Brits take Taipei for the 3rd time and wipe out the last of the Jap Inf. This respite allows me to get two convoys of 32 ground units into China and systematically take (with coordinated Air, Sea and Ground attacks) Hanoi, Nanning, Canton, Liuzhou, Amoy, Ningpo and finally Shanghai. I assume they concentrated on USSR and Taiwan as Bulgan has changed hands 3 times as well.
The convoy from the USA stopped by, clobbered and then invaded Truk on the way to China on Week 23. More British ships keep arriving from India and Australia(?) and the British have taken over most of the destruction of the Jap new construction. My Recon showed that they also have sent a large Tank force (28) from India toward Peking through China. The next time I could spare a plane to recon in that area I observed 4 Brit Tanks retreating but no cities changed hands.
The Current British Strenth is 19 DDs, 78 LCs, 13 CAs, 33 BBs, 14 CVs, 27 SSs, 29 Transports, 667 Inf, 231 Workers, 291 Tanks, 44 Bombers, 65 Fighters, 64 Artillery! This has to be the result of Lend-Lease.
In Europe: France has all starting cities and Namur. Britian has Antwerp and keeps recapturing Amsterdam. UssR has lost Liepaja Week 19 but took Tirana Week 29. The Battle for Anatolia has gone poorly for the Turks. They lost Istanbul Week 29.
The Italian Navy and Air Force does not exist and they are reduced to 32 Inf and 5 Fortresses!
The German Navy has 2 U-Boats. They have 46 fighters, 1 Bomber, 79 Inf., 8 Artillery, 121 88s, 21 Pz3s.
In Africa: No Changes. Italy stills maintains Addis Abeba and Bisciera.
In S America: Brazil has had three cities Razed and Peace declared Turn 30.
The main reason I stopped here to chronicle to date is the USSR just did a realignment and signed a peace agreement with the Axis and declared war on the Brits?! You can never figure the AI. I sent my first Task force to Greenland, Iceland and the Azores to set up air bases and have a limited assault planned for Sardinia to establish some kind of base in Europe.
To be continued................
Sorry about the delay, Out of town for awhile.
Aecon
Week 18 thru Week 30 On going battle to maintain Hong Kong. Alas, my fighters are gone with no Japanese losses! I will concentrate on bringing FLAK to protect my units in the cities until I can get some competitive fighters. My BB Fleet is getting damaged by continuous air assault but they seem to kill more planes by AA then the Jap is producing. I will have to withdraw before I start to lose ships. Having 85 ships in one stack can only defend for so long. The British come to my "rescue" when they bring into the Phillipine Sea 6 KGVs, 4 CVs, 15 CLs, numerous DDs and 6 transports to invade Taiwan on week 20. This battle continues badly for the Jap but they do not lose complete control until Turn 29 when the Brits take Taipei for the 3rd time and wipe out the last of the Jap Inf. This respite allows me to get two convoys of 32 ground units into China and systematically take (with coordinated Air, Sea and Ground attacks) Hanoi, Nanning, Canton, Liuzhou, Amoy, Ningpo and finally Shanghai. I assume they concentrated on USSR and Taiwan as Bulgan has changed hands 3 times as well.
The convoy from the USA stopped by, clobbered and then invaded Truk on the way to China on Week 23. More British ships keep arriving from India and Australia(?) and the British have taken over most of the destruction of the Jap new construction. My Recon showed that they also have sent a large Tank force (28) from India toward Peking through China. The next time I could spare a plane to recon in that area I observed 4 Brit Tanks retreating but no cities changed hands.
The Current British Strenth is 19 DDs, 78 LCs, 13 CAs, 33 BBs, 14 CVs, 27 SSs, 29 Transports, 667 Inf, 231 Workers, 291 Tanks, 44 Bombers, 65 Fighters, 64 Artillery! This has to be the result of Lend-Lease.
In Europe: France has all starting cities and Namur. Britian has Antwerp and keeps recapturing Amsterdam. UssR has lost Liepaja Week 19 but took Tirana Week 29. The Battle for Anatolia has gone poorly for the Turks. They lost Istanbul Week 29.
The Italian Navy and Air Force does not exist and they are reduced to 32 Inf and 5 Fortresses!
The German Navy has 2 U-Boats. They have 46 fighters, 1 Bomber, 79 Inf., 8 Artillery, 121 88s, 21 Pz3s.
In Africa: No Changes. Italy stills maintains Addis Abeba and Bisciera.
In S America: Brazil has had three cities Razed and Peace declared Turn 30.
The main reason I stopped here to chronicle to date is the USSR just did a realignment and signed a peace agreement with the Axis and declared war on the Brits?! You can never figure the AI. I sent my first Task force to Greenland, Iceland and the Azores to set up air bases and have a limited assault planned for Sardinia to establish some kind of base in Europe.
To be continued................
Sorry about the delay, Out of town for awhile.
Aecon
Anthropoid
Grognard fantome
Man, I wish I had the time to participate in this thread. I know I spouted off some half-baked ideas some months back . . . hopefully those may have been of some use to someone who actually follows through with game editing and testing
In any event, Rocoteh, I SALUTE YOU FOR ONE OF THE BEST MODS IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF C3C!!
In any event, Rocoteh, I SALUTE YOU FOR ONE OF THE BEST MODS IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF C3C!!
A few questions about your scenario.
1.Why don't you have StrumTiger in this scenario?
2.Why do you not have Pacific Island cities like Midway Aleutian Islands etc?
3Why does Japan start with no tanks?
BTW nice scenario.
Equuleus,
1. As Baldurslayer says in another post there not many were produced.
Its possible it will be included as a what-if in a future version though.
2. One reason is that there is a 512 cities limit in Civ 3.
Version 2.4. will have more cities in the Pacific.
3. In September 1939 Japan had no division-level armoured units.
Even The British Empire had only 2 armoured divisions. Its worth to
remember that until the German invasion of Poland, only a few people
outside Germany thought the Blitzkrieg was a good idea.
Rocoteh
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