Yet Another Abortion Debate Thread

[aimeeandbeatles]

I was laying in bed this morning when this question popped into my head. So I decided to start yet another thread about abortion. Go figure.

But for those people who are against abortion, wouldnt it make more sense to look into how to prevent and help unwanted pregnancies that often lead to abortion rather than making laws that ban them, that only means they will more likely do it illegally.

There's a question. Now get into huge flamewars VERY POLITE DEBATES until the thread's closed. I'll stay out.

 

[holy king]

they do that. in a very pushy and uncompassionate way.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

The premise that the debate is about "making sense" is hugely flawed.

 

[warpus]

But for those people who are against abortion, wouldnt it make more sense to look into how to prevent and help unwanted pregnancies that often lead to abortion rather than making laws that ban them, that only means they will more likely do it illegally.

It does, but it's slightly unfortunate that a lot of the people who are against abortion are also against proper sex education.

It's lose-lose with that crowd really

 

[Formaldehyde]

Yes, it would. Instead, many of them advocate abstinence-only education and blocking free condoms from being readily available which only leads to even more unwanted pregnancies.

Oops. Largely an X-post.

 

[History_Buff]

But for those people who are against abortion, wouldnt it make more sense to look into how to prevent and help unwanted pregnancies that often lead to abortion rather than making laws that ban them, that only means they will more likely do it illegally.

Because the point isn't to prevent abortion, it's essentially to prevent pre-marital sex, and non-traditional relationships.

Neither birth control or abortion are really kosher, which suggests that raising any children is a punishment and reminder of your sin. Or at least that's the vibe I got in Catholic school. And I really sympathized with that point of view for a while.

 

[Flying Pig]

Because the point isn't to prevent abortion, it's essentially to prevent pre-marital sex, and non-traditional relationships.

Well, it's more complicated than that, but I think we do have to factor in those considerations as well. Aimee - you do have a distinct masochistic streak starting another one of these threads. It's a shame we're not on Facebook, so we can't just tag Dommy, CH and El Mac and get the jousting started properly.

 

[El_Machinae]

How does someone 'prevent and help unwanted pregnancies'?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Well, it's more complicated than that, but I think we do have to factor in those considerations as well. Aimee - you do have a distinct masochistic streak starting another one of these threads. It's a shame we're not on Facebook, so we can't just tag Dommy, CH and El Mac and get the jousting started properly.

I think I'm going to stay out of this one. I already pointed out in the other thread about how many of the pro-choice arguments are actually lies. Unless/until someone responds to them I'm not jumping into another debate unless someone ticks me off enough.

 

[Flying Pig]

...OK, it seems we can!

 

[NYHunter]

No, conservatism values punishment over prevention. In their view, people shouldn't even think of wanting to do the things they view as wrong to begin with. In some cases, they are even shocked by it or pretend to be shocked by it. So, when it comes to abortion, the conservative point of view requires that abortion must be illegal so they can punish women for being no good slorebags.

 

[GhostWriter16]

No, conservatism values punishment over prevention. In their view, people shouldn't even think of wanting to do the things they view as wrong to begin with. In some cases, they are even shocked by it or pretend to be shocked by it. So, when it comes to abortion, the conservative point of view requires that abortion must be illegal so they can punish women for being no good slorebags.

That may describe the "Except for rape and incest..." people but that's really about it.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Aimee - you do have a distinct masochistic streak starting another one of these threads.

Dictionary says "Deriving sexual gratification from being abused or dominated." I really don't think I'm getting off from making this thread.

How does someone 'prevent and help unwanted pregnancies'?

I said I wouldnt post again but Ill post this here. But basically figuring out why pregnancies were unwanted and doing things to change that. No birth control? Increase access and coverage for that. Genetic diseases? Put more medical research into finding ways to fix that. Unable to afford the cost of the medical costs associated with pregnancy? More help for that. Basically stuff like that. Instead of just saying, "nope, you can't have an abortion, deal with it."

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

I said I wouldnt post again but Ill post this here. But basically figuring out why pregnancies were unwanted and doing things to change that. No birth control? Increase access and coverage for that. Genetic diseases? Put more medical research into finding ways to fix that. Unable to afford the cost of the medical costs associated with pregnancy? More help for that. Basically stuff like that. Instead of just saying, "nope, you can't have an abortion, deal with it."

I think that birth control is already accessible enough (doesn't planned parenthood give that stuff out in poor neighborhoods). Your point on genetic diseases I understand and sympathize with. And I don't think that any hospital would turn down a pregnant woman seeking medical help.

The only reason there is so much controversy over abortion is because the "anti-choice" crowd honestly believes it to be murder. And if it is murder as we say it is it only makes sense to outlaw it.

 

[Ajidica]

If you believe it to be murder, when does the fetus become a human person? If you are going to use legal terms such as murder, it would be nice to be on the same page.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

If you believe it to be murder, when does the fetus become a human person?

the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think that birth control is already accessible enough (doesn't planned parenthood give that stuff out in poor neighborhoods). Your point on genetic diseases I understand and sympathize with. And I don't think that any hospital would turn down a pregnant woman seeking medical help.

The only reason there is so much controversy over abortion is because the "anti-choice" crowd honestly believes it to be murder. And if it is murder as we say it is it only makes sense to outlaw it.

Not every poor neighborhood has a planned parenthood and not every middle/upper class woman has access to birth control. When Obamacare comes into full effect and everyone is covered with health insurance and woman get birth control for free, then your bolded sentence above will actually reflect reality.

Isn't that another reason to love Obamacare? More birth control access = less abortions

 

[utgotye]

If you believe it to be murder, when does the fetus become a human person?

I must be an idiot to wade into an issue like this but I'll throw my two cents in. I use common sense with regard to that. Find the developmental point at which the vast majority of premature babies survive and make that the line. Likely to survive outside the womb = no abortion. Before that is "ok". Find that line, 20 weeks, 22, 24, whatever and stick to it.

 

[Ajidica]

the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg.

Ignoring for a moment the cellular and sentience aspects that definition fails to address, does that mean if the body self-aborts the fetus* it commited involuntary manslaughter?

*Let's hope I am remembering 9th grade Sex Ed correctly right now.

 

[utgotye]

Not every poor neighborhood has a planned parenthood and not every middle/upper class woman has access to birth control. When Obamacare comes into full effect and everyone is covered with health insurance and woman get birth control for free, then your bolded sentence above will actually reflect reality.

Isn't that another reason to love Obamacare? More birth control access = less abortions

It won't be free. Having everyone covered will cause costs to go up not down.