Your Defenition of "the west"

[Bast]

That's the west. We should also include Russia though.

If you look at that landscape what seems to be the defining factor here?

Religion and language. Those countries that are part of the western world tend to speak Indo-European languages (virtually all European languages like English, French, Spanish etc...) which is why Russian should also belong. They also tend to be mostly Christian countries which is why Russian should also belong. They are also based on the Graeco-Roman traditions of legal and political systems.

I know that there are countries like India that also speaks Indo-European languages but I suppose they are set apart by their religion and that fact that there's no Graeco-Roman tradition there.

They say that Greece and Rome laid the foundations of western culture, so I feel if you don't have elements of it in your culture, you're not apart of the western world.

Today with globalization, the walls are starting to crumble but I think the line should be divided still and we should know which world we belong too.

 

[Red Door]

Israel
United States
Canada
United Kingdom
France
Spain
Portugal
Ireland
Norway
Sweden
Germany
Belgium
Luxembourg
Holland
Austria
Switzerland
Italy
Greece
Turkey
Andorra

 

[Perfection]

 

[Bast]

-Japan, South Korea, Singapore

Sorry this isn't just about Economics. The culture in Japan, Korea and Singapore is SO DIFFERENT to the western world. Their language, religions and history. And that fact that Greece and Rome have virtually nothing to contribute to their culture.

 

[Masquerouge]

They say that Greece and Rome laid the foundations of western culture, so I feel if you don't have elements of it in your culture, you're not apart of the western world.

So the West is homosexual legionnaries with a freudian fascination for big, white columns?

More seriously, the complete difference of answers clearly show that each definition of the West is here to suit ideology.

 

[Oruc]

I've always thought the west was basically Europe and its offshots.
Europe, Russia (as it seems some people dont think of Russia when you say Europe), Americas, Australia, New Zealand and Israel would be the west.

 

[greekguy]

Sorry this isn't just about Economics. The culture in Japan, Korea and Singapore is SO DIFFERENT to the western world. Their language, religions and history. And that fact that Greece and Rome have virtually nothing to contribute to their culture.

I view Western as just not culture, but also by modernization. there are skyscrapers and 21st century metropolises in those 3 Asian countries i listed and they utilize capitalism. just because there are cultural origins don't lie with Caesar and Alexander doesn't mean we should exclude them from the modern world. i should also clarify being not Western, IMO, means you either are a) an enemy of the West, b) not democracy/bad human rights, or c) not capitalistic.

 

[Sidhe]

Sorry this isn't just about Economics. The culture in Japan, Korea and Singapore is SO DIFFERENT to the western world. Their language, religions and history. And that fact that Greece and Rome have virtually nothing to contribute to their culture.

More to do with politics I fear. Many here are making their decisions based on politics rather than economic or development technologically.

 

[Masquerouge]

More to do with politics I fear. Many here are making their decisions based on politics rather than economic or development technologically.

Why should it not be based on politics?

 

[The Last Conformist]

More seriously, the complete difference of answers clearly show that each definition of the West is here to suit ideology.

Actually, it only shows that there is no commonly agreed definition of what constitutes "the West".

Historically, speaking, "the West" is an amalgamation of a number of non-coterminous dichotomies - Catholic~Orthodox, Christian~Muslim, Capitalist~Socialist, industrialized~traditional, to name the most obvious -, that moreover haven't been constant over time. Confusion of usage should be no surprise.

 

[Masquerouge]

Actually, it only shows that there is no commonly agreed definition of what constitutes "the West".

Historically, speaking, "the West" is an amalgamation of a number of non-coterminous dichotomies - Catholic~Orthodox, Christian~Muslim, Capitalist~Socialist, industrialized~traditional, to name the most obvious -, that moreover haven't been constant over time. Confusion of usage should be no surprise.

True, but you'll probably then use a definition of the West that best suits your ideology (just look at RMSharpe's or Bast's)

 

[Bast]

I view Western as just not culture, but also by modernization. there are skyscrapers and 21st century metropolises in those 3 Asian countries i listed and they utilize capitalism. just because there are cultural origins don't lie with Caesar and Alexander doesn't mean we should exclude them from the modern world. i should also clarify being not Western, IMO, means you either are a) an enemy of the West, b) not democracy/bad human rights, or c) not capitalistic.

There are a lot of enemies of the west but I really don't think you can assume that a, b and c about non-western countries.

You're going down the road of west = good, non-west = bad. I don't think that's a good idea or the point of identifying a western world.

It's simply about who we are and who's different from us. Those that are different could be friends or enemies.

I identify the west with religion, language, culture, economics and history/traditions.

I do think it's a lot about whether cultural origins lie with Caesar and Alexander but that's just me.

For me, it's a lot about the lineage of languages and religions:

Judaism to Christianity
Phoenician to Greek to Latin to modern indo-european languages

Initially based on the Old European World (hence the term "western world").

And then spreading to the New World through colonialism and conquest.

 

[Sidhe]

Why should it not be based on politics?

Because according to RM Sharpe, Russia, South Africa and some well developed S.American countries arent western, to me this smacks of bias. Since the most populated area of Russia is in europe, I find his map untennable when considering the West.

 

[Masquerouge]

Because according to RM Sharpe, Russia, South Africa and some well developed S.American countries arent western, to me this smacks of bias.

As I said, it doesn't actually smack of bias, everybody just finds a definition of the West that suits their political, economical and cultural views.
But fundamentally no definition is better than the other...

 

[The Last Conformist]

True, but you'll probably then use a definition of the West that best suits your ideology (just look at RMSharpe's or Bast's)

Certainly, many do so; I shall withhold judgement as to whether most do.

As for the definition I supplied myself, it's certainly agreeabe to my views of history, but it doesn't seem obviously suited to any modern-day ideology of importance.

 

[greekguy]

There are a lot of enemies of the west but I really don't think you can assume that a, b and c about non-western countries.

You're going down the road of west = good, non-west = bad. I don't think that's a good idea or the point of identifying a western world.

It's simply about who we are and who's different from us. Those that are different could be friends or enemies.

I identify the west with religion, language, culture, economics and history/traditions.

I do think it's a lot about whether cultural origins lie with Caesar and Alexander but that's just me.

For me, it's a lot about the lineage of languages and religions:

Judaism to Christianity
Phoenician to Greek to Latin to modern indo-european languages

Initially based on the Old European World (hence the term "western world").

And then spreading to the New World through colonialism and conquest.

well i did say a, b, or, c. so an example for A would be Syria, and example for B would be China, and an example for C would be Vietnam (thinking about it some more, North Korea actually fits all 3! ).

i agree ancient culture is part of it, but i don't think it should be the be all to end all (don't forget a lot of places you didn't include have high Christian populations). but I think a modern Western culture has been developing ever since the Cold War and has continued to spread over the past 15 or so years. places like South Korea and Japan are using English (for business at least) more, developing metropolises and capitalism and working for more and more human rights and maintaining democracy..and i think that should be what is used to symbolize what is Western.

 

[amadeus]

Why the mix of yellow and red in South America?

In Venezuela's case, it is entirely the fault of Hugo Chavez. He's moving Venezuela away from the foundations of Western civilized society and trying to morph it into a quasi-Maoist (in theory) state. The same can be said for Boliiva, but on a much smaller scale. The other major countries, Ecuador and Paraguay, are still largely agrarian societies, if you exclude Ecuador's petrolium production.

Because according to RM Sharpe, Russia, South Africa and some well developed S.American countries arent western, to me this smacks of bias. Since the most populated area of Russia is in europe, I find his map untennable when considering the West.

Russia is not included because of their backslide into totalitarianism, as in restricted political freedoms and restricted economic freedom.

Sotuh Africa is not included in part due to the fact that the ANC has been deliberately sabotaging the influence of European culture in South Africa. The Afrikaans language has been effectively demoted in South Africa's government, major cities and buildings have been renamed -- even names that predated apartheid, the ANC's continued courting of countries like North Korea, the ANC's unwillingness to deal with government corruption, violent crime, etc.

Most stunning is the Mandela cult of personality that permeates South Africa's political landscape; using his name as a magic word to try and solve (in reality, sweep under the rug) South Africa's problems, going so far as to renaming metropolitain areas, bridges, city squares, shopping centers, highways, etc. after him as though he was the second coming of Christ, Buddha, Mohammad, Abraham, the Brahman, and Moses all in one.

 

[.Shane.]

White Christians.

lol, that's the secret definition.

 

[Masquerouge]

lol, that's the secret definition.

I'm glad someone saw the irony in my reply

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

Russia is definitely not the West, and it definitely seems unhelpful to try to force them into any definition of that type. Russia is Russia, a mix of Slavic peoples, Slavic culture, Orthodox Christian religion, Western Culture, and vast Asiatic lands.