Zero day DLC = disrespecting the customer

[Rub'Rum]

Sounds reasonable to me, unless you remember the conversation differently?

Civ V as announced: 18 civs.
Civ V as released: 18 civs
Deluxe Edition: +1 civ (and other stuff).

By my math, if they had removed a civ, then the vanilla edition would only have 17.

It's not a matter of what was planned, are adding, or removing. It's more like... Is this gameplay content ready at launch date? Yes? Put it in the base game. End of story.

 

[MarkJohnson]

Well, I just got to thinking about this issues while looking for a new game to buy. I see almost all new high quality games run $59.99 and up. so, I think everyone is looking at this in the wrong light. You're getting a free deluxe version with 19 civs and bonus stuff for retail price, and getting the standard version for $10 off for being such good dedicated and loyal Civ players!

It sounds like a win-win situation to me!
-=Mark=-

 

[P A U L]

The people I really feel sorry for are the people who have to pay in Euros. That's ovr $20 in american dollars.

 

[MarkJohnson]

The people I really feel sorry for are the people who have to pay in Euros. That's over $20 in American dollars.

if you're referring to the extra $10 USD being equal to $20 EU, it's actually cheaper in euros at only $8.09 EU.

Everyone's currency is worth more than the USD anymore it seems. Even the Canadian dollar was worth more not long ago and is equal to $10.22 CAD now.

Google is your friend.
-=Mark=-

 

[MarkJohnson]

hmm, I just googled Amazon.co.uk and they have Civ V for only 24.99 GBP or $36.97 USD. But our US amazon.com is still listed $49.99.

What's up with that?
-=Mark=-
hmm, I just went to the UK checkout to see what shipping is and it says they won't ship to this address, but the game is listed for only 21.97 GBP or $31.47 USD. heck, with $10 or so shipping it would still be a bargain.

 

[Tylerryan79]

@Simonl

I was waiting for someone to say that .... It was just a huge simplification, because as you know, there is no practical way to truly show content/cost ratio. However seeing as no one has any true facts, beyond price and extra content, there's no real argument beyond "I don't like them not having this civ in, because I don't pay for things that should be in the game, according to me".

In this same way of no real facts, except above mentioned, I can reasonably say that you would be paying $10 for the soundtrack, and they are throwing in a whole civ, and making of video, for FREE!!!

Disclaimer: I'd love for Babylon to be included in vanilla civ, and will not be buyig the deluxe edition, but a retail copy. If it is ever later released, in a pack of civs or seperate, I will probably buy it. Also only at a price of say 5 civs for $10 or single civs for for $3, anymore and Id have to way it out more.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Honestly I think more disrespect comes from restricting sales of the deluxe edition to steam (because it's obviously part of a contract between Firaxis/2K and Valve) combined with the fact it is priced ridiculously in countries outside America. The whole $10 extra for a bonus becomes rather small an issue when they're hoping to grab an extra $30 for the regular game anyway.

I really do hope to get a response from 2K about whether gifting games across regions on steam is legal and will be allowed with civ5 but I don't know if I'll get an answer about it. Does anyone know for sure whether there is a specific policy for or against gifting across regions?

 

[Krill]

Well, what if I'm in the US, buy the game, but then fly to the UK and install it on my PC there? Would that be legal?

 

[civ_king]

Well, what if I'm in the US, buy the game, but then fly to the UK and install it on my PC there? Would that be legal?

Or you could have someone in the US buy it then gift it to you

 

[jabberwalkee_]

It's called price discrimination (nothing to do with 'discrimination') and it is commonly practiced by just about every producer with some amount of market power.

2k are effectively a monopolist in the market for Civilization 5. They have to make a trade-off between the price they set and the quantity of the game they sell. Higher price, lower sales. Price Discrimination helps them get around this by letting them charge more to people who are willing to pay more, while still getting the same number of sales by keeping the original price.

But, as I've said before in other threads, more profit for 2k means more development budget for Civ 5. The better the game, the better the sales. The better the game the more expensive it is. Every time they make the game better they increase its cost, but also increase their sales. So 2k will provide a development budget such that the marginal cost of more development is equal to the marginal revenue of that additional development. So if they can derive more revenue from the game then the profit maximising level of development will be higher.

So if you don't want Babylon, don't buy it. But don't be upset by it. Other people are willing to pay for it, and by paying more they get you a (marginally) more developed game.

 

[PieceOfMind]

jabberwalkee, correct me if my understanding is wrong, but price discrimination applies to sales of one type of product. If you have a deluxe and regular edition, it's nothing to do with price discrimination. Price discrimination is selling the regular edition (as well as the deluxe edition) at different prices based on what country you live in, with at least as much as a 60% markup in this case (I'm not sure if people are paying more than 80USD in other regions).

 

[Mercade]

jabberwalkee, correct me if my understanding is wrong, but price discrimination applies to sales of one type of product. If you have a deluxe and regular edition, it's nothing to do with price discrimination. Price discrimination is selling the regular edition (as well as the deluxe edition) at different prices based on what country you live in, with at least as much as a 60% markup in this case (I'm not sure if people are paying more than 80USD in other regions).

Somehow I wonder if Steam simply didn't use the right currency on their page for Australia. Since they recognize Australia as a separate market, maybe they intend to ask 79.99 AU$ instead of 79.99 US$. That would be somewhat more in line with e.g. Mighty Ape asking 72.99 AU$. It's still overpricing, but in line with how they overprice in UK asking 29.99 GBP versus 24.99 GBP by e.g. Amazon and HMV.

 

[Rub'Rum]

The better the game, the better the sales. The better the game the more expensive it is. Every time they make the game better they increase its cost, but also increase their sales.

No.

Other people are willing to pay for it, and by paying more they get you a (marginally) more developed game.

No.

 

[Jugalub]

Somehow I wonder if Steam simply didn't use the right currency on their page for Australia. Since they recognize Australia as a separate market, maybe they intend to ask 79.99 AU$ instead of 79.99 US$. That would be somewhat more in line with e.g. Mighty Ape asking 72.99 AU$. It's still overpricing, but in line with how they overprice in UK asking 29.99 GBP versus 24.99 GBP by e.g. Amazon and HMV.

It's completely pointless comparing the prices in different regions as:

A) certain things are more expensive relative to other things in other countries (loaf of bread vs standard CD vs pint of beer)

B) cost of living (things are very expensive in Norway and Japan but wages are very high - I have a friend in Norway who works in a bar and who gets six or seven times the wages of what I would in the UK for the same work)

C) exchange rates

D) smaller markets in smaller areas are more prone to having prices raised higher due to lack of competition

---

In the UK, by and large, it's cheapest to buy CDs, DVDs and books on Amazon, then other online retailers and Tesco, then actual stores. This isn't the case in all countries and in general it can be the opposite in smaller ones.

 

[PieceOfMind]

It's completely pointless comparing the prices in different regions as:

A) certain things are more expensive relative to other things in other countries (loaf of bread vs standard CD vs pint of beer)

Yes, usually thanks to shipping/transportation costs, because we're talking about an imported good here, not a locally produced one (like bread, beer etc.). I agree this is normal. However a 60% markup for something that is distributed entirely digitally can not be explained by the extra costs of distribution. It's possible for some reason Valve have to pay a lot more for bandwidth in other regions, but I doubt that's the reason we're seeing 60% extra on the price.

B) cost of living (things are very expensive in Norway and Japan but wages are very high - I have a friend in Norway who works in a bar and who gets six or seven times the wages of what I would in the UK for the same work)

While true, it doesn't apply much here I don't think. Correct me if I'm wrong, but living expenses aren't radically different between the US, UK and Australia.
For other game releases, the difference in prices is not usually as high as 60%. I'd estimate 20 to 30% is typical and pretty acceptable to most people.

C) exchange rates

Irrelevant if the price is in USD already. In fact I would have to pay the fee to do the currency conversion - not Valve.

D) smaller markets in smaller areas are more prone to having prices raised higher due to lack of competition

Who's ensuring the lack of competition in this case? "Steam exclusive deluxe edition". The point is valid for the regular edition though. It would be silly to complain about the price of the regular edition on Steam if it was available from several other retailers or online businesses. I haven't seen many places advertising preorders for civ5 yet unfortunatley, so I don't have much data to go on. I'm not entirely happy with Valve and 2K having complete control over the price of the deluxe edition.

 

[jabberwalkee_]

jabberwalkee, correct me if my understanding is wrong, but price discrimination applies to sales of one type of product. If you have a deluxe and regular edition, it's nothing to do with price discrimination. Price discrimination is selling the regular edition (as well as the deluxe edition) at different prices based on what country you live in, with at least as much as a 60% markup in this case (I'm not sure if people are paying more than 80USD in other regions).

Price discrimination is used to describe any situation when fundamentally similar products are sold for different prices. Because there is really no cost difference between the production of the two versions of the game the only difference is artificially created by the producer. Concession film tickets, deluxe versions, Windows versions, video cards (which are often physically identical to more expensive models, they just have some bits disabled) are all examples.

 

[Jugalub]

I'm not entirely happy with Valve and 2K having complete control over the price of the deluxe edition.

So who's going to price it?

 

[Mercade]

It's completely pointless comparing the prices in different regions as:

A) certain things are more expensive relative to other things in other countries (loaf of bread vs standard CD vs pint of beer)
B) cost of living (things are very expensive in Norway and Japan but wages are very high - I have a friend in Norway who works in a bar and who gets six or seven times the wages of what I would in the UK for the same work)
C) exchange rates
D) smaller markets in smaller areas are more prone to having prices raised higher due to lack of competition

In order not to be accused of ThreadJacking by our new mod , I've cross-posted my answer in the thread about pricing anomalies.

 

[PieceOfMind]

jabberwalkee,
I'd like to know what source you're using for your definition of price discrimination. Wikipedia (I know, I know, not the best source of information, but usually is reasonable for definitions at least) says:
"Price discrimination, or price differentiation [1], exists when sales of identical goods or services are transacted at different prices from the same provider. In general, the practice of charging different customers different prices is called price discrimination.[1]"

I'm thinking that whatever the thing is you're describing is not the same thing.

So who's going to price it?

I don't understand. Is it a rhetorical question?

 

[Mercade]

Who's ensuring the lack of competition in this case? "Steam exclusive deluxe edition". The point is valid for the regular edition though. It would be silly to complain about the price of the regular edition on Steam if it was available from several other retailers or online businesses. I haven't seen many places advertising preorders for civ5 yet unfortunatley, so I don't have much data to go on. I'm not entirely happy with Valve and 2K having complete control over the price of the deluxe edition.

For a list of preorder sites, check out this thread.