Mystery13
Prince
From the order up top it looks like I'm next, so I got it! Will play tonight and hope I can handle the file upload.
ZF1 - Zed's Training Day Game
- Thread starter Zed-F
- Start date
Sorry, ChrTh. I pun almost constantly, so I usually let others make the comments.Originally posted by ChrTh
I'm upset no one liked my Dockonda Bay pun
To paraphrase the song:
I'm sittin' here in Dockonda Bay,
Watchin' the tide roll away;
Sittin' here in Dockonda Bay, wastin' time.
If we push purple dot and pink dot each one square SW, we don't waste the two forests marked with yellow Xs, and can found another coastal half city east of pink dot city. This new city can then grab the cattle, and pink dot remains on the river. You might need to re-jig blue and grey dots a bit to get them to fit without too much overlap.
See how it goes? Founding half cities to not waste tiles is often a good plan, providing you can get together enough non-overlap tiles so that the city isn't infringing too much on another city's elbow room. Note that how much infringement is acceptable is a judgement call -- it depends on the quality of the available land and on how big you plan to let both cities get. Sometimes it's better to have 2 cities that you only plan to grow to 12, than one city that can grow all the way to 20+. Another point to note is, looking long term, you never want to let tiles near the capital go to waste (as much as you can avoid it.) Even if the land is so poor that the city will never get above 6 because it's all coast and desert/mountains, if it's close to the capital it's still valuable for the commerce benefit. Such cities may be low priority to found relative to better sites, but a close-in fishing village is more valuable than a far away tragically corrupted (1/1) city with paradisical lands.
Green dot needs to be one tile NE, so as to not waste so much land and to get the full potential out of the wheat, as LK mentioned. Overlap with our capital will not be a big problem.
As for your city on a river question, I would definately pick a river over a bonus resource, unless my lands were so food-poor and landlocked (i.e. no harbour) that I couldn't grow without the bonus resource (and how likely is that with a river nearby?) Strategic and Luxury resources can be grabbed with roads/colonies, so those are no-brainers. Freshwater access is very useful, and the trade bonus from river tiles makes river cities doubly valuable. On that note, there is a freshwater lake near blue and grey dots (next to that little finger of coast) -- one of those dots should be on that lake to get the free aquecut bonus. Maybe push blue one SW and grey 2 squares SW, and leave blue as a half-city? We'll definately have to explore N and W of pink and grey dots before we can firm up plans in this area; that other patch of 2 coast tiles could be an inland lake as well, in which case we might be able to site both cities on a lake. Fortunately we have lots of time to explore before we consider sending a settler up there -- and besides which, the Iroquois may have other plans for that land, as well...
It's definately time to get some spears going, if we're about to make contact, so intersperse them in amongst our settlers/workers. We don't want to be seen as pushovers! Also keep in mind that workers count as units when the AI counts up military strength, so a few extra workers makes us seem tougher militarily than we really are.
See how it goes? Founding half cities to not waste tiles is often a good plan, providing you can get together enough non-overlap tiles so that the city isn't infringing too much on another city's elbow room. Note that how much infringement is acceptable is a judgement call -- it depends on the quality of the available land and on how big you plan to let both cities get. Sometimes it's better to have 2 cities that you only plan to grow to 12, than one city that can grow all the way to 20+. Another point to note is, looking long term, you never want to let tiles near the capital go to waste (as much as you can avoid it.) Even if the land is so poor that the city will never get above 6 because it's all coast and desert/mountains, if it's close to the capital it's still valuable for the commerce benefit. Such cities may be low priority to found relative to better sites, but a close-in fishing village is more valuable than a far away tragically corrupted (1/1) city with paradisical lands.
Green dot needs to be one tile NE, so as to not waste so much land and to get the full potential out of the wheat, as LK mentioned. Overlap with our capital will not be a big problem.
As for your city on a river question, I would definately pick a river over a bonus resource, unless my lands were so food-poor and landlocked (i.e. no harbour) that I couldn't grow without the bonus resource (and how likely is that with a river nearby?) Strategic and Luxury resources can be grabbed with roads/colonies, so those are no-brainers. Freshwater access is very useful, and the trade bonus from river tiles makes river cities doubly valuable. On that note, there is a freshwater lake near blue and grey dots (next to that little finger of coast) -- one of those dots should be on that lake to get the free aquecut bonus. Maybe push blue one SW and grey 2 squares SW, and leave blue as a half-city? We'll definately have to explore N and W of pink and grey dots before we can firm up plans in this area; that other patch of 2 coast tiles could be an inland lake as well, in which case we might be able to site both cities on a lake. Fortunately we have lots of time to explore before we consider sending a settler up there -- and besides which, the Iroquois may have other plans for that land, as well...
It's definately time to get some spears going, if we're about to make contact, so intersperse them in amongst our settlers/workers. We don't want to be seen as pushovers! Also keep in mind that workers count as units when the AI counts up military strength, so a few extra workers makes us seem tougher militarily than we really are.
Mystery13
Prince
Just checking to see if the reply is working. I just lost my entire post
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
"the Iroquois may have other plans for that land, as well... "
Their plans are irrelevant
I'm not sure if Mystery13's post indicated that he played...but if he hadn't (or even if he had), in what order do you think we should settle the dots on the map? I was thinking Purple/Pink/Green...what d'y'all think?
Their plans are irrelevant
I'm not sure if Mystery13's post indicated that he played...but if he hadn't (or even if he had), in what order do you think we should settle the dots on the map? I was thinking Purple/Pink/Green...what d'y'all think?
Mystery13
Prince
...and so begins the reign of Mysterious I.
What is it that I must do? What is best for my people? Ah, here we go. The history books
explain the work of Zed-f, our glorius first ruler.
He says we must found cities to shore up the bottleneck, get some defense and grow RAPIDLY.
Ok, we can do that. What's this? Of course. The famous dot map of future city sites.
Yes, that will be helpful. Hmmm, I'm not so sure about some of these. I think that we can
waste a few less squares but I will not differ from our ancient writings.
Written here are the annals of the Mysterious I.
2510
Survey the scene. Dockanda builds a worker next turn. Could build a settler in 10. We
have a close, unknown neighbor and they will grow like weeds. No, let's get the second
worker going. We will need irrigation to grow rapidly.
New worker sent to road productive grass. Dockanda set to build warrior.
Goody hut reveals barbs! Conscript warrior looks for place to hide.
We have warriors to the North and West exploring.
Conscript warrior defeats the horde!!! Promoted to veteran.
2470
Exploration and road building. New vet heads to Beijing for healing and new instructions.
2430
Warrior to the North discovers that, indeed, the body of water is a large lake. More water
farther North.
Eastern warrior finds our neighbors are the Iroquois. They have knowledge of round, spoked
objects and clay molding. They won't tell us anymore about them though.
Iroquois pissed at us already and want us to leave. Sheesh. I pity the fool.
2390
Workers begin road to purple dot.
We find that the second body of water is another large lake. The Great Lakes!
2350
Settler built in Beijing and the city holds at size two (managed perfectly by my
predecessor). What to build next? Two building choices or a spearman. Regular spearman
are not a good idea. Temple is usually the best, but we are not religious so it is
expensive. Since we are at Regent level, we can wait a bit for a Temple. Barracks in 7
turns sounds good since Mounted Warriors will be coming soon. Vet spears for all!
Warriors still exploring to the West and North.
OOPS. Just realized that irrigating the wheat near Dockanda should have been done before
the road to purple dot. RAPID GROWTH. Will do that next.
2310
Warrior built in Dockanda, settler ordered.
Healed vet warrior sent North to explore.
North of the Great Lakes we find jungle...and dyes! We will have to hurry to beat the
Iroquois up here.
2270
Barbarian spotted heading North. Newly crowned vet warrior goes to investigate coast North
of Beijing.
Goody hut spotted by Western warrior.
2230
Goody hut popped and out comes Mysticism! All right. Now we have some trade bait. What!
30 gold for Mysticism! No, you won't teach us about pottery or the wheel! Fools! Forget
it, we don't need your 30 gold.
Shanghai founded at "Purple Dot."
2190
More scouting from the warriors. Dockanda worker finished irrigating wheat begins mining
productive grassland.
2150
Barb camp should be on coast North of the cattle country, though I haven't confirmed it yet.
Here is what I think. We will have one barracks city next turn. Vet spears for all.
Dockanda and Shanghai should be able to produce all the workers and settlers we could
possibly need. Mining the shield grasslands is a must to keep the build turns for a settler
down to a reasonable level.
Just saw the post from our glorious creator, Zed-f. I wanted to move the dots a little bit
but decided not to deviate from the ancient text. However, the other placements can change
as you have so wisely suggested.
Save file in the next post.
What is it that I must do? What is best for my people? Ah, here we go. The history books
explain the work of Zed-f, our glorius first ruler.
He says we must found cities to shore up the bottleneck, get some defense and grow RAPIDLY.
Ok, we can do that. What's this? Of course. The famous dot map of future city sites.
Yes, that will be helpful. Hmmm, I'm not so sure about some of these. I think that we can
waste a few less squares but I will not differ from our ancient writings.
Written here are the annals of the Mysterious I.
2510
Survey the scene. Dockanda builds a worker next turn. Could build a settler in 10. We
have a close, unknown neighbor and they will grow like weeds. No, let's get the second
worker going. We will need irrigation to grow rapidly.
New worker sent to road productive grass. Dockanda set to build warrior.
Goody hut reveals barbs! Conscript warrior looks for place to hide.
We have warriors to the North and West exploring.
Conscript warrior defeats the horde!!! Promoted to veteran.
2470
Exploration and road building. New vet heads to Beijing for healing and new instructions.
2430
Warrior to the North discovers that, indeed, the body of water is a large lake. More water
farther North.
Eastern warrior finds our neighbors are the Iroquois. They have knowledge of round, spoked
objects and clay molding. They won't tell us anymore about them though.
Iroquois pissed at us already and want us to leave. Sheesh. I pity the fool.
2390
Workers begin road to purple dot.
We find that the second body of water is another large lake. The Great Lakes!
2350
Settler built in Beijing and the city holds at size two (managed perfectly by my
predecessor). What to build next? Two building choices or a spearman. Regular spearman
are not a good idea. Temple is usually the best, but we are not religious so it is
expensive. Since we are at Regent level, we can wait a bit for a Temple. Barracks in 7
turns sounds good since Mounted Warriors will be coming soon. Vet spears for all!
Warriors still exploring to the West and North.
OOPS. Just realized that irrigating the wheat near Dockanda should have been done before
the road to purple dot. RAPID GROWTH. Will do that next.
2310
Warrior built in Dockanda, settler ordered.
Healed vet warrior sent North to explore.
North of the Great Lakes we find jungle...and dyes! We will have to hurry to beat the
Iroquois up here.
2270
Barbarian spotted heading North. Newly crowned vet warrior goes to investigate coast North
of Beijing.
Goody hut spotted by Western warrior.
2230
Goody hut popped and out comes Mysticism! All right. Now we have some trade bait. What!
30 gold for Mysticism! No, you won't teach us about pottery or the wheel! Fools! Forget
it, we don't need your 30 gold.
Shanghai founded at "Purple Dot."
2190
More scouting from the warriors. Dockanda worker finished irrigating wheat begins mining
productive grassland.
2150
Barb camp should be on coast North of the cattle country, though I haven't confirmed it yet.
Here is what I think. We will have one barracks city next turn. Vet spears for all.
Dockanda and Shanghai should be able to produce all the workers and settlers we could
possibly need. Mining the shield grasslands is a must to keep the build turns for a settler
down to a reasonable level.
Just saw the post from our glorious creator, Zed-f. I wanted to move the dots a little bit
but decided not to deviate from the ancient text. However, the other placements can change
as you have so wisely suggested.
Save file in the next post.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
[dance]
Kudos for navigator Nebular!
[dance]
Mystery13
Prince
Oops, the forum was down last night so I couldn't post after I played. I sent the save file to my work computer so that I could attach it as soon as the forum came back up. Unfortuneately, I sent the wrong file to work. I'll be home in about three hours and I'll post the correct one as soon as I get there.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
"OOPS. Just realized that irrigating the wheat near Dockanda should have been done before
the road to purple dot. RAPID GROWTH. Will do that next. "
This is my bad...I had tacked on the 'what we need to do' at the very end of my post (where I said we needed to do this next). Next time I'll do a separate post.
the road to purple dot. RAPID GROWTH. Will do that next. "
This is my bad...I had tacked on the 'what we need to do' at the very end of my post (where I said we needed to do this next). Next time I'll do a separate post.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Ok, looking at the Dot Map situation...
Maybe Move Yellow Dot one tile NE...we'd still lose that sliver of coast (not sure if we could use it anyhow--it might just be water) but we'd gain the two forests. We'd also not have the fish until we expanded, but we'd have the game. We should still be able to build a harbor. Are there any issues building a city on a forest?
Green should DEFINITELY be one tile N of wheat SE of Beijing.
Blue is tough. If we move it N one tile (to take advantage of the lake)...we lose a grassland and a cow. If we keep it where it is, we'll need an aqueduct eventually.
I haven't seen the new map, so I don't know about Grey and Pink. What do y'all think?
Maybe Move Yellow Dot one tile NE...we'd still lose that sliver of coast (not sure if we could use it anyhow--it might just be water) but we'd gain the two forests. We'd also not have the fish until we expanded, but we'd have the game. We should still be able to build a harbor. Are there any issues building a city on a forest?
Green should DEFINITELY be one tile N of wheat SE of Beijing.
Blue is tough. If we move it N one tile (to take advantage of the lake)...we lose a grassland and a cow. If we keep it where it is, we'll need an aqueduct eventually.
I haven't seen the new map, so I don't know about Grey and Pink. What do y'all think?
Mystery13
Prince
I'll try to post a new map from home as well. Is that done using the alt-prnt-screen function and then pasting into the reply editor? Or is that what the IMG button is used for? A little help!
New map would be great. Use alt-printscreen to make it, and copy it into an image program that will save as jpg. Then, upload it here using the upload file link at the bottom of the forums page (not inside this post, where you got to this post from) and then use the IMG button to put a link to the picture you just uploaded in your post. The forum will figure out how to display the pic from there.
If purple dot did not get moved one SW, then moving Yellow one NE is a good idea. We may still want to found another city east of pink dot, and try to keep it fairly small. More comments when we have the revised map posted...
If purple dot did not get moved one SW, then moving Yellow one NE is a good idea. We may still want to found another city east of pink dot, and try to keep it fairly small. More comments when we have the revised map posted...
Mystery13
Prince
Here's the file, now I'll try the picture.
Mystery13
Prince
Well, the IMG button is just giving me an explorer script prompt so something isn't right. I'll keep trying.
Mystery13
Prince
Mystery13
Prince
Hmmm...still not quite right. I cannot get the IMG button to allow me to browse the links in the upload section. I went directly into the properties of my file and pulled the attachment url from there. No color? I've got some learning to do here apparently.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Ok, I created another dotmap, but it's a little hard to read, so you may want to open the game map for reference (the shielded grasslands are nigh-impossible to make out).
The negatives I see are:
Purple Dot shares a lot of tiles.
Maize Dot probably would be corrupt, but it would grab the dies, and with the fish and game in range would at least grow some.
I couldn't get Grey Dot on the fresh water, so it will require an aqueduct at some point.
There are only a couple wasted tiles, and the one by Green Dot actually could have a small city put on it (it would grab the Whale to the SE)
We don't know what's NE of Teal, but I don't think it would effect either Teal or Blue (BTW, Teal is on a river, it's just hard to see).
I'm not an expert on city distance/corruption effects, but I get the feeling that we'd only be able to put one more city (to the NE of Teal) that would be good and productive. It's a shame we didn't start off closer to where Purple Dot and Black Dot are...although that would've made us closer to the Iriquois.
I would build Grey Dot first, to grab the Ivory and fend off the Iriquois, then Black Dot (to further close ranks)--but then again, I'm the rookie here, so what do I know?
The negatives I see are:
Purple Dot shares a lot of tiles.
Maize Dot probably would be corrupt, but it would grab the dies, and with the fish and game in range would at least grow some.
I couldn't get Grey Dot on the fresh water, so it will require an aqueduct at some point.
There are only a couple wasted tiles, and the one by Green Dot actually could have a small city put on it (it would grab the Whale to the SE)
We don't know what's NE of Teal, but I don't think it would effect either Teal or Blue (BTW, Teal is on a river, it's just hard to see).
I'm not an expert on city distance/corruption effects, but I get the feeling that we'd only be able to put one more city (to the NE of Teal) that would be good and productive. It's a shame we didn't start off closer to where Purple Dot and Black Dot are...although that would've made us closer to the Iriquois.
I would build Grey Dot first, to grab the Ivory and fend off the Iriquois, then Black Dot (to further close ranks)--but then again, I'm the rookie here, so what do I know?
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Ok, I looked at the save game, and here's what I'm thinking; let me know if I'm thinking correctly:
We need to research The Wheel...finding Horses will determine our course of settling. Perhaps the price has dropped, we should check with Hiawatha. If we can't get it from Hi, then we should research it next.
I would change Shanghai from Warrior to Barracks. We need to get some Spearman out there; I'd build Barracks/Spearman/Settler in Shanghai, Barracks/Settler/Spearman in Beijing. Spearmen should be sent to the 'front line cities' or travel with the Settlers.
What do we know about the Iriquois? I've not often played against them (or been next to them so early in the game). Are they aggressive, wusses, somewhere in between? How do they compare with the Romans, Zulus, Germans, Russians, etc.?
We need to research The Wheel...finding Horses will determine our course of settling. Perhaps the price has dropped, we should check with Hiawatha. If we can't get it from Hi, then we should research it next.
I would change Shanghai from Warrior to Barracks. We need to get some Spearman out there; I'd build Barracks/Spearman/Settler in Shanghai, Barracks/Settler/Spearman in Beijing. Spearmen should be sent to the 'front line cities' or travel with the Settlers.
What do we know about the Iriquois? I've not often played against them (or been next to them so early in the game). Are they aggressive, wusses, somewhere in between? How do they compare with the Romans, Zulus, Germans, Russians, etc.?
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,063
I think the mounted warrior is very powerfully early unit.
The only ancient era unit with an attack of 3 that can retreat.
Not as aggresive as Germany or Zululand, but I would avoid a war until the time of riders.
Unless, they have no horses :flamedevi:
