Zimmerman Not guilty

[Kyriakos]

I thought your point was that it didn't make sense that Zimmerman wanted to kill Martin because he would have done it far sooner? But the prosecution did provide that scenario which actually makes far more sense than the one that Zimmerman claims occurred.

Isn't that what you stated twice above?

That was one of the points, yes. You replied to another one, in a somewhat strange manner

As to that original point, i don't know what scenario the prosecution presented, but in my view the wounds Z had indicate that they were inflicted while T was fighting him, so i do not really see how a premeditated murder/execution would work out in such a scenario. I find it very unlikely that Z wanted to kill T and thought that it would be a good idea to allow T to harm him, so as to make it look less obvious that Z was after getting the kill. That was what the first point i made was about.

 

[Goodfella]

There will be a lot of racists gunning for him for sure.

And yesterday a blank panther said he'd be happy if Zimmerman were killed in prison.

“Anything less than death for George Zimmerman is not justice,” Kojo Kayrallah told The Daily Caller Friday afternoon. Kayrallah, who identified himself as the Chief of Staff for the state of Florida said he and his group were here in Sanford seeking “justice for Trayvon.”

When asked if death in prison was satisfactory, Kayrallah said “praise be to God.”

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/12/n...rman-is-killed-in-prison-video/#ixzz2Z2IUNXeP

Here's hoping for Zimmerman's safety.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That was one of the points, yes. You replied to another one, in a somewhat strange manner

As to that original point, i don't know what scenario the prosecution presented, but in my view the wounds Z had indicate that they were inflicted while T was fighting him, so i do not really see how a premeditated murder/execution would work out in such a scenario. I find it very unlikely that Z wanted to kill T and thought that it would be a good idea to allow T to harm him, so as to make it look less obvious that Z was after getting the kill. That was what the first point i made was about.

Premeditated murder is first degree murder. That isn't the crime which he was charged. Zimmerman was trying to make sure Martin didn't "always get away" with being completely innocent, probably like the rest of the black youths that Zimmerman previously profiled.

Shooting someone through the heart at point blank range and then "mounting" them until they no longer move, instead of even trying to save their lives or call for an ambulance, is most certainly trying to kill someone.

And yesterday a blank panther said he'd be happy if Zimmerman were killed in prison.

I'm sure nobody ever said that about OJ, blacks who killed whites for racial reasons, or any cop killer.

 

[Tarquelne]

The U.S. court system has an explicit presumption of innocence.

Cultural or legislative systems that encourage vigilantism have an implicit presumption of guilt.

Of course they're a bad fit.

What this thread, others like it, and the one on Oregon may demonstrate is that with the War on Drugs, the War on Terror, and most importantly the War on Feeling Insecure, America may have priced itself out of a first-world criminal justice system.
Or at least parts of it have.

Yes, yes, yes, there are a host of social programs or initiatives that might generally bring down crime rates and actually save money doing so... but - like national health care - they're "socialist!" and thus completely unsuitable for Real Americans, who, it seems, would rather shoot people.

 

[Goodfella]

I'm sure nobody ever said that about OJ, blacks who killed whites for racial reasons, or any cop killer.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Formaldehyde]

The U.S. court system has an explicit presumption of innocence.

Cultural or legislative systems that encourage vigilantism have an implicit presumption of guilt.

Of course they're a bad fit.

What this thread, others like it, and the one on Oregon may demonstrate is that with the War on Drugs, the War on Terror, and most importantly the War on Feeling Insecure, America may have priced itself out of a first-world criminal justice system.
Or at least parts of it have.

Yes, yes, yes, there are a host of social programs or initiatives that might generally bring down crime rates and actually save money doing so... but - like national health care - they're "socialist!" and thus completely unsuitable for Real Americans, who, it seems, would rather shoot people.

Indeed. I couldn't agree more. Perhaps some day we will have laws that directly address vigilantism as another hate crime.

What the hell are you talking about?

I think it speaks volumes that you cannot discern why that statement was just so much wishful thinking, instead of any sort of actual threat, that is frequently parroted by "law and order" vigilante types like Zimmerman himself.

 

[Goodfella]

Any actual threat? Like putting a bounty on his head? And are you seriously debating that Zimmerman received death threats?

 

[Tarquelne]

Indeed. I couldn't agree more.

Oh, it is ON. I'm going to tear into you in another thread for that.

 

[bhsup]

What this thread, others like it, and the one on Oregon may demonstrate is that with the War on Drugs, the War on Terror, and most importantly the War on Feeling Insecure, America may have priced itself out of a first-world criminal justice system.
Or at least parts of it have.

Compared to first-world justice systems like in Italy where one can be hauled back to court to be retried for the same crime one has already been found innocent of? Or with first-world systems like in France and Switzerland where the legal system bends over backwards to protect someone who drugs a 13 year old child so they can sodomize and rape the child? Thanks, but I think I'll take my chances in any American court any day of the year rather than ever be tried outside our borders.

 

[kramerfan86]

The polanksy case isnt really a good example of a European problem but instead an American justice system problem. He plead guilty of one crime and was promised a specific punishment based on that plea, and the system was going to attempt to renege on that deal once they had him in custody. What sort of banana republic justice system worms pleas out of people with deals then just alters the deal after they have the confession?

I will agree with the Italian example though, that system is a joke.

 

[Kyriakos]

Was there a case like that in Switzerland? Sounds more like Belgium.

Switzerland possibly is way too delicate to have such friction caused, given that it is a collection of cantons with different ethnicities having the majority.

Edit: i guess you were talking about Polanski. I thought this was about a Dutroux case.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Any actual threat? Like putting a bounty on his head? And are you seriously debating that Zimmerman received death threats?

Are you "seriously debating" that this was an actual threat? Don't you think Martin's parents also received threats?

 

[Goodfella]

I actually never said it was a threat but that it was an example of the opinion of fringe groups that would like to see harm done to Zimmerman. But a bounty on Zimmerman's head is a threat. I'm baffled as to why you're arguing about this. Why do you feel compelled to do so? Can you just admit that it's not okay for GZ to be murdered in prison and that it's not okay for the Black Panthers to place a bounty on his head and hope that he gets murdered in prison? The dude has been wearing a bullet proof vest in public out of fear for his safety. His attorneys have stated that both they and Zimmerman have been receiving death threats and that there are a lot of people, such as the Black Panthers, that would like to see Zimmerman dead. Do you not believe these statements to be true?

 

[Goodfella]

Stop editing your posts after I've already responded to them. It makes it hard to keep track of what's going on. And your amazing Form. I say that Zimmerman has been receiving death threats and you can't just sit there and acknowledge that this is true without pointing out that the Martin family also receives death threats. What the hell is wrong with you?! Have I posted anything that would make it seems as if I condone death threats against anyone?! I don't.

 

[Formaldehyde]

But a bounty on Zimmerman's head is a threat.

Only that "dead or alive bounty" was actually nothing of the sort, and was incessantly discussed long ago.

Over the weekend, members of the New Black Panther Party showed just how tense the situation in the Trayvon Martin shooting has gotten: They offered a $10,000 bounty for the capture of George Zimmerman, who shot and killed the unarmed teenager.

You see, it is actually illegal in this country to post a bounty for the killing of anybody. I would think you should know that simple fact.

Stop editing your posts after I've already responded to them.

I edited the post long before you posted yourself. And even if I had, I have no idea when you are going to post. And I certainly cannot see them as I am editing my own post.

So no. If you don't like it, too bad.

 

[Azale]

Did Geraldo heroically sacrifice himself to prevent the race riots or something? Where are they??

 

[Formaldehyde]

You mean was he actually there among the protesters trying to instigate something for Fox News to sensationalize, while deliberately spreading his own clearly false propaganda regarding the trial?

And you apparently haven't been reading Prison Planet recently. Someone actually threw a temporary barrier at the "pigs" and broke a windshield.

While setting fire to what appears to be some shrubbery or possibly a flag:

The damage now extends to the hundreds of dollars.

 

[Kyriakos]

Yahoo news has an article about the riots (in at least three US cities) which took place hours ago. Don't know if any new ones are going on.

Btw it seems the US government is going to press charges against Zimmerman for a federal crime (?). What does that even mean? And how is it not covered by Z having already been found innocent in another trial?

 

[kramerfan86]

The federal government is investigating, its not a sure thing they will bother bringing charges. If they do charge him it will be for I believe a hate crime. Honestly charging him again for the same incident but a different charge smells like backdoor double jeopardy to me personally.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Perhaps they are going to charge him with a hate crime or a violation of civil rights. This occasionally occurs when the feds think there has been a miscarriage of justice by the local courts.

But I think you are jumping the gun. The NAACP has apparently only just asked that they do so.

I think they have a good point given that the prosecution was prohibited from pointing out that it was clearly racial profiling on the part of Trayvon Martin.