ZPNESVI Discussion Thread (Nesse)

[Daftpanzer]

Hopefully I am allowed to make a seperate thread is for general arguments and discussion between players.

Orders, actions, stories, diplo with NPC factions (me) and anything really important should go in the original thread. Otherwise, feel free to post anything here!

 

[Crezth]

To: Those involved in trade expedition
From: Hippus Clan

How could you even think of going on a long overland expedition without horses? Our beasts of burden will be instrumental in expediting this trek.

 

[Thlayli]

The Hippus Clan is welcome to join the expedition. Nessan horses might sell for a high price in the south as well.

Edit: You have been added to the expedition rolls.

 

[Thlayli]

Proposed Structure of the Nessan Senate:

8 Senators: Challoan Senator, Alya Senator, Wolf Clan Senator, Fire Clan Senator, Ninticus Senator, Gelioner Senator, Dicchus Senator, Askani Senator
Senatorial Powers: Voting upon issues before the Senate, serving as Diplomats and War Leaders. Senators can forward issues to the Moderator to be considered as laws.

1 Moderator: Elite representative from ONE of the Elite Clans. Elected by Majority Vote of the Nesser Clans. (Only non-Elite, city-dwelling clans can vote for Moderator.)
Moderatorial Powers: Right of proposal of new laws and issues forwarded by the Scribes, right of appointment of Elite Senators to be Diplomats and War Leaders. Tie-breaking vote in the event of a tie.

Elections: Elite Senators are appointed by Elite Houses and Clans, and serve for life, or until retirement. The Moderator serves a 5 year term. Moderators can serve consecutive terms as long as they continue to be re-elected by the Nesser Clans.

Overruling the Moderator: Six out of eight senators can vote to reject a Moderator's appointment. Three senators can vote to force a Moderator to bring an issue forward for debate.

Removing Senators and the Moderator: Six out of eight Senators can vote to remove a fellow Senator from office for crimes against Nesse. Seven out of eight senators (as in, the entire Senate except for the Senator from the Moderator's family) can vote to remove a moderator for crimes against Nesse.

In response to the Gelioner criticisms, we have added two new sections. We are open to other criticisms, including changing the Moderator's term length and powers.

 

[BananaLee]

Dicchus: Senate

Regarding the Senate, I still wish to put forward the idea that Moderators has the right of choosing of War Leaders and Diplomat BUT the decision to appoint must be agreed by the Senate

 

[Northen Wolf]

To: Fellow Exiles
From: Harambi Faction
The Harambi would like to see a unification of the people and resources on the Island of the Exiles. We believe that this would make conditions on the island much better.

From: Moon Shadow Clan
To: Exiled Clans

Exiles have no need for senate like elites have, but we, as CITIZENS OF NESSE Should have right to defend ourselves. We, the Moon Shadow Clan, are willing to defend this this part of Nesse from an invasion of foes who threw us here. Sharing of land and resources has already been (in-officially) solved - every clan has its own land and buildings, we do not mind formalizing who controls what areas.

Every exiled clan should have:
* Free passage to Orange Town - port that will be used for fishing and trading neccessery tools.
* Drop-off point of new exiled ones should be considered neutral area.
* Enough land to feed themselves
* Important resources (should we have any) should be shared equally between everyone on this isle.

Please note that Moon Shadow Clan is against any kind of violence and deeds that go against Laws of Nesse.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Dicchus: Senate

Regarding the Senate, I still wish to put forward the idea that Moderators has the right of choosing of War Leaders and Diplomat BUT the decision to appoint must be agreed by the Senate

The Ninticus Clan supports this proposal.

 

[Gelion]

In response to the Gelioners suggestions, House Ìademos believes that the position of Moderator should not be weakened further. While Elites may propose issues to the Moderator for discussion, we believe that only the Moderator should introduce new laws to be voted upon, as it is in his interest to protect the common people of Nesse from unfair laws.

How can people of Nesse be protected from unfair laws if only one person is allowed to propose them? Propose laws and vote laws in are different process. Are you proposing that a Moderator is the only one to propose laws? The only one to accept them? When the people cannot participate in a city's government a city becomes tyrants heaven.

We shall add, however, that the opposition of 6 out of 8 senators would be enough to block Moderator appointments, and that if a majority of Senators wish to discuss a proposition, the Moderator must allow it to be introduced. One of the Moderator's functions is to prevent one Elite House with an agenda from flooding the Senate with propositions.

Again, this proposition is defined only when moderator powers are defined. Great powers - great constrains, few powers - less constrains.

 

[erez87]

We see it that the moderator is asked be senators and citizens to put forward rules, and he chooses by importance among them.

We think it i an Ok system. Choose the moderator right.

 

[chemhater]

From: Moon Shadow Clan
To: Exiled Clans

Exiles have no need for senate like elites have, but we, as CITIZENS OF NESSE Should have right to defend ourselves. We, the Moon Shadow Clan, are willing to defend this this part of Nesse from an invasion of foes who threw us here. Sharing of land and resources has already been (in-officially) solved - every clan has its own land and buildings, we do not mind formalizing who controls what areas.

Every exiled clan should have:
* Free passage to Orange Town - port that will be used for fishing and trading neccessery tools.
* Drop-off point of new exiled ones should be considered neutral area.
* Enough land to feed themselves
* Important resources (should we have any) should be shared equally between everyone on this isle.

Please note that Moon Shadow Clan is against any kind of violence and deeds that go against Laws of Nesse.

The Harambi support your ideals. We also believe that while our views of the laws of Nesse differ from yours, we can still work together.

 

[Thlayli]

In response to the Gelioners:

Only the Moderator may introduce laws for voting. The Moderator cannot pass laws, nor can he vote on laws, except as a tie breaker, so there is no possibility for tyranny. The Moderator enforces the laws, and does not make them. However, he can help shape the direction of Nesse through his proposals.

Again, the Moderator exists to prevent any one Senator from paralyzing the Senate. If a group of Senators wishes a law to be proposed, they may request the Moderator to do so. If the Moderator refuses, a bloc of Senators may force the issue.

In response to your criticisms, however, we have lowered the necessary number of Senators to force the Moderator to introduce a proposal to 3.

In response to the Ninticus and Dicchus:

We will agree that the call for appointment of a war leader of diplomat must be made by at least half the Senate, and we shall add this to the final proposal.

 

[Vertinari118]

We join the Hippus now in demanding representation. Why are we now excluded from the election of moderators? Are we now released as independent tribes? If that is the case we will charge the Ìademos for every day our men are away, every battle they fight in and the weregild of course. Our soldiers will no longer form the core of any militia or army created either.

 

[bestrfcplayer]

The Thong Clan has every right to send some of our people to this senete. It will put us in a better place in society.

 

[Vertinari118]

You are exiles. If you dare put one foot on the mainland within one hundred miles of the Glorious City we shall hammer you into the ground. Get back to your island exile and stay there!

 

[Ninja Dude]

We join the Hippus now in demanding representation. Why are we now excluded from the election of moderators? Are we now released as independent tribes? If that is the case we will charge the Ìademos for every day our men are away, every battle they fight in and the weregild of course. Our soldiers will no longer form the core of any militia or army created either.

Most of the Elites are in favor of giving the Outlanders and Nesser Clans partial or indirect representation in the Senate. There is no need to demand something that people plan on giving you anyways.

 

[Thlayli]

We join the Hippus now in demanding representation. Why are we now excluded from the election of moderators? Are we now released as independent tribes? If that is the case we will charge the Ìademos for every day our men are away, every battle they fight in and the weregild of course. Our soldiers will no longer form the core of any militia or army created either.

When writing our proposal, several Elite Houses have said that since the Outlanders govern themselves, and are not subject to the Laws of Nesse, and do not pay taxes to the Senate of Nesse, they do not have the right to participate in elections for Moderator.

If the Outlanders wish to begin paying taxes, they could be included in the vote. However, we do not think that they do.

One proposal for the new Senate to consider, however, is how the voices of the Outlanders should be heard in the Senate, perhaps through a non-voting representative.

 

[Vertinari118]

So in other words we are completely independent from the city? You have cut us loose because a few horsemen complained?! We are shocked and angered that the city of Nesse would abandon loyal citizens and subjects over the issue of taxes and drafting. The Nessers and even Elites have complained about the same or similar issues but they are still allowed to remain part of the state. Why are we cut loose?

 

[Thlayli]

Why is there no mention of this in the official description of the Senate then? We have no ability to choose who rules us or what they do. This leaves are warriors open for abuse by the power hungry city of Nesse. We will not let the men and women of our clan die for no reason!

Technically, there is no difference from the current system. The Outlanders still govern themselves and cooperate with the city. They simply do not vote to choose the Moderator.

OOC: I originally included Outlanders in the vote for Moderator but withdrew it after objections from some Elites.

 

[Vertinari118]

See edit.

 

[Anonymoose]

It doesn't make sense for the Outlanders to vote. It would be like having elites attend the Trade Federation meetings.