ZPNESVI Discussion Thread (Nesse)

[Bil]

{OOC: Quick question, the answer to which is probably buried somewhere in the main thread and I don't feel like looking for it... What was decided on Nesser representation? Anything yet? I see that the Elite voting system is in place, but I don't see anything about how the Nesser "votes" (if there end up being any) are to be handled.}

 

[Thlayli]

The decision is that the Nesser clans will vote to elect a Moderator, an Elite with special powers to oversee the Senate. See the approved structure of the new Senate on the latest page.

 

[BananaLee]

So in other words we are completely independent from the city?

Er... yes, and Outlanders always have been.

We are shocked and angered that the city of Nesse would abandon loyal citizens and subjects over the issue of taxes and drafting.

Outlanders have never paid taxes. And there is no obligation to be draughted. It's just something you'd do because it may be in your best interest versus the barbarians.

I am shocked you don't know the difference between being a "citizen" and an Outlander. The concept of citizenship jus soli does not exist in this time (and OTL never really existed till the French Revolution)

 

[Vertinari118]

Then why are we Nesse CLANS not Barbarian TRIBES? Why did we pay taxes until the Hippus had a massive strop and took the rest of the Outlanders with them, because we had no representation? Why do the Laws of Nesse, expect for the drafting laws which aren't going to be implemented anyway apply in the Outlands? Maybe because we were part of the state until you cast us out into the dark.

OOC: To use an OOC example were the farmers of Rome subject to Roman laws? What about the miners and the barbarians who they absorbed? They were all subjects? What about modern day farmers, miners etc? Are they all subjects or citizens of their various countries? Every city-state and empire has city dwellers and rural subjects. The rural subjects are just as much part of the state as the city dwellers. Are they not?

 

[Crezth]

Then why are we Nesse CLANS not Barbarian TRIBES? Why did we pay taxes until the Hippus had a massive strop and took the rest of the Outlanders with them, because we had no representation? Why do the Laws of Nesse, expect for the drafting laws which aren't going to be implemented anyway apply in the Outlands? Maybe because we were part of the state until you cast us out into the dark.

OOC: To use an OOC example were the farmers of Rome subject to Roman laws? What about the miners and the barbarians who they absorbed? They were all subjects? What about modern day farmers, miners etc? Are they all subjects or citizens of their various countries? Every city-state and empire has city dwellers and rural subjects. The rural subjects are just as much part of the state as the city dwellers. Are they not?

We never paid taxes. We follow the Laws because of Social Contract because we aren't Barbarians, unlike Bear Clan evidently.

OOC: To use an OOC example you are a real-live idiot.

 

[Shadowbound]

OOC: Ouch.

The House of the Horned King recommends that the Bear Clan throw itself on the mercy of the Senate before it is dismantled. Violently.

 

[orangelex44]

And so, the delusion of the Exiles only grows. They steal our trade, they hate our society, and they continue to be a stain upon the fair shores of Nesse.

We hope the Elites soon see fit to Exile them to the afterlife.

This seems a bit... vicious. What have we ever done against the City? Tell us off our crimes - all we did was support the rightful leader against his usurpers. We have stole nothing, we hate none that did not hate us first, and as for being a "stain upon the fair shores of Nesse", well, 'tis better to be right and poor than wrong and with ill-gained riches.

Said the exiles who supported the cruel kings of the past who "would eat fully, and demand that their lesser brethren make the sacrifice".

Silly exiles.

From the OP:

In times past, there was a great king, but the Elites deposed him and Exiled his supporters.

Where, in the annals of Nesse, is it said the kings were cruel? Has anyone but the usurper "Elite" mob ever made that claim? A fair judge would never be enough a fool to say such filth.


You may ever make your false claims to lead the city, you may ever argue upon a losing point, but you will also ever know your deceit at the end of it. May your families get exactly the end they deserve.

We had hoped only to make some see the truth of it. It was never a great hope, but even a small chance was worth the effort.

 

[Vertinari118]

The House of the Horned King recommends that the Bear Clan throw itself on the mercy of the Senate before it is dismantled. Violently.

You can't. We are not your subjects. We are not subject to your laws. We shall do as we please.

 

[Anonymoose]

The Drezden move that the Trade Federation officially declare war upon the Bear tribe for posing a clear and present danger to the well-being of the Outlanders as a whole. The Bear clan should be subjugated and Exiled.

 

[Vertinari118]

Why? We are quite within our rights to argue for inclusion into society and we are quite within our rights to withdraw from an unjust society. We have never pretended to represent all Outlanders when we withdrew and any action Nesse takes, illegally, will be against us alone.

 

[bestrfcplayer]

We never paid taxes. We follow the Laws because of Social OOC: To use an OOC example you are a real-live idiot.

OOC: He just got POWNED!

 

[Anonymoose]

But we fear that you will bring about the undoing of us all by joining with the Cyrians. It is not acceptable to bring about everyone's ruin because you don't want to be part of a "system."

Edit:

OOC: He just got POWNED!

Please don't do that.

 

[bestrfcplayer]

The Drezden move that the Trade Federation officially declare war upon the Bear tribe for posing a clear and present danger to the well-being of the Outlanders as a whole. The Bear clan should be subjugated and Exiled.

The Thong Clan declares war on the The Drezden for declaring war on an inoccent tribe!

 

[Vertinari118]

We have put forward a general statement. Anyone, including Nesse could hire us if they wanted to. We would be unlikely to accept an offer from Nesse but if no-one else comes alone we will accept. We would advise the Thong Clan stay on Exile Island to avoid their complete annihilation.

 

[Anonymoose]

That's ridiculous. The Drezden didn't even declare war. We just enacted a movement to have the Trade Federation go to war against them. And beside that point, if you really want to fight against the axmen, you are more than welcome to find your way to the lodge. Just know that if any Drezden spot your disgusting ilk in the forest, they shall fell you like a diseased tree.

 

[alex994]

The Demetrii fully commend the actions of the Drezden and look forward to increasing cooperation with the Trade Federation.

 

[Crezth]

To: Bear Clan
From: Hippus Clan

If you want so badly to be part of our society, then act like it. Do not however, presume that you get special privileges, especially considering the crimes you perpetrated not long ago against your "fellow" Outlanders. The city-dwellers may be more merciful, but the patience of we Outlanders grows treacherously thin. Now sit down and learn your place. If you want to throw off our society, then we will treat you as you were before you joined: Barbarians. And foolish ones at that.

To: Outlanders (minus Bear Clan)
From: Hippus Clan (on behalf of Outlander Trade Federation)

We hereby invite all Outland clans to join the Outlander Trade Federation. This group is designed to be a fully oligarchical organization whereby we shall be masters of our own fate, and capable of organizing our abilities economically, politically, and militaristically for the good of the whole. Membership comes with no obligations, as we operate on the principle that each member joins out of rational self-interest, which translates to a sense of community and brotherhood.

 

[chemhater]

OOC:

The Thong Clan declares war on the The Drezden for declaring war on an inoccent tribe!

Can an Exile be exiled from the island?

 

[Vertinari118]

You have thrown away society. You forced the Outlanders out of Nesse society. As we no longer have a place in a society which wishes to take everything from us and give nothing back we will leave. We will go into self-imposed exile. Isn't that what you all want? The rest of the Outlanders want it so they can pretend to be part of a society they banished themselves from. The Elites want it for saying the truths they don't want to hear. The Exiles and the Nessers couldn't care either way.

 

[Anonymoose]

The Drezden think that society is really only what you make of it. You can evade the real issue for as long as you wish, but what it boils down to is your dislike for the life of an Outlander. You want to be a barb clan again.