0.32... the deadly silence :)

[smjjames]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Hunter
Im afraid that nothing can keep up with the original
Please make the changelog public....

Sorry, not yet. We are in playtest mode right now, hopefully you guys are playing and reporting feedback so that we can tweak, balance and improve the features that already exist. At this stage Id rather be having those conversations then talking about what is to come.

Well, there will be the new unit art that is in the art blog which has not come out in the game yet.

Also how the heck do you do the multiquote button?? it doesn't seem to work, I manually put the quote inside a quote here.

 

[xienwolf]

Click on Multi and it will highlight. Go to another post and click on Multi, it again will highlight. Then go to another post and click Quote. You get brought to a response/post screen which contains all 3 messages quoted (it doesn't nest quotes for any of them though)

 

[blacknight]

If you're looking for a wish list for .32 I thought the idea a while back of letting great people "discover" resources was great (and it nicely fixed the "oh my, no incense or reagents on my half of the map" problem).

I'm eagerly looking forward to the next goodies.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Discovering resources like that doesn't seem like that good of an idea to me.

I do think it would be good if more improvements had a chance to discover resources though, and to make it so that each resource discovery chance can be easily tied to a different mana type.


I really think that the great persons' ability to light bulb a tech should be made to give you several options of techs, maybe through an event or spell.


I'm still really hoping that you will eventually add targeted spells back, this time in C++. It seems like you could borrow from the AirCombat code and even get the AI to understand it.

There are lots of tags for units that would be more useful for promotions. Any chance of you borrowing Grey Fox's and xienwolf's schama changes, and keep adding more? Right now I'm really wanting to use UnitClassTargets and UnitCombatTargets (a similar PromotionTargets would be even better) in promotions. I'm thinking that it could be good for the Marksman promotion to allow spells that give temporary promotions for targeting specific unit types.

 

[Mortenart]

If you're looking for a wish list for .32 I thought the idea a while back of letting great people "discover" resources was great (and it nicely fixed the "oh my, no incense or reagents on my half of the map" problem).

My original idea was for harvestable resources (not discovering new ones), whether using a GP or a specialist harvester unit. eg you could move a herd of horses from a distant or awkward location to your own boundaries. This would be an excellent adddition I think.

 

[Alzara]

My original idea was for harvestable resources (not discovering new ones), whether using a GP or a specialist harvester unit. eg you could move a herd of horses from a distant or awkward location to your own boundaries. This would be an excellent adddition I think.

Yeah I agree. Always wanted to get a great person who can make wine or something. Maybe he should be a French or Australian great person?

Al

 

[Randolph]

Using a great priest to create insense or a great sage to get reagents is certainly an interesting idea that is very appealing as a player, but I get the impression that the designers want there to be situations where you simply can't get a certain resource to force different strategies.

 

[Kael]

Using a great priest to create insense or a great sage to get reagents is certainly an interesting idea that is very appealing as a player, but I get the impression that the designers want there to be situations where you simply can't get a certain resource to force different strategies.

We actually used it in AoI to allow mammoths to create ivory resources. And functionaly this is what is happening by allowing adepts to convert mana to the various types.

But you are correct. Allowing specialists to create incense/reagents would negate the requirement. It would be better to ask "should we have the requirement?" not how to we work around it.

 

[Mortenart]

But you are correct. Allowing specialists to create incense/reagents would negate the requirement. It would be better to ask "should we have the requirement?" not how to we work around it.

I was not proposing creating resources, only relocating resources that were already present in the game you were playing. This would still allow for the scarcity of resources that is necessary in any game, but would provide a means of acquiring a resource that is not within your boundaries. It would provide an additional challenge, rather than allow you to create whatever resources you required, which I agree would be game-breaking.

 

[Grand Seeker]

Mortenart, maybe YOU did not propose CREATING resources, but other did. And CREATING resources with GREAT PEOPLE was a much better idee.

 

[mtagge]

But you are correct. Allowing specialists to create incense/reagents would negate the requirement. It would be better to ask "should we have the requirement?" not how to we work around it.

So, should we? Any thoughts on that from the design team?




I would like to see much more interesting choices of what to do with specialists overall since the choices seem to be static only slightly changing depending on what civ I am playing (great bard creates the song, after that goes towards golden age; sages build academies then settle; engineers settle unless there is a race for certain key wonders; prophets go towards the altar).

When I get some free time I was going to design a series of buildings that the specialists would create that step up and provide some of the aspects not in FFH yet. For example the first bard would build an art district (boosting GP generation in the city and providing some happy faces) the second bard in the same city would build a world wonder (ala altar) that eliminates unhappy or lengthens golden ages. Engineers first building is a smithy that provides XP to units in the city (maybe a unique one for the Sidar giving something other than XP), the second layer gives a promotion to units in the city like the enchanted blade promotion, etc.

Also letting them add resources (maybe take away yields on the tile where it is created to balance) would give some choices to the player without requiring or adding complication. There is also a real opportunity to give unique buildings built by the specialists to really flesh out and differentiate (and balance) the different civs and religions (think of the ROK mines or the Tower of Complacency built by specialists instead). That and take away bulbing, I am not a power CIV player, but bulbing seems too much like a munchkin move in FFH anyway and doesn't do anything in the latter third of the game with the tech costs so high.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

@Mortenart: This was proposed for the Malakim unique mechanism. The real question is would the AI know how to use it? Without it any mechanism is useless :/, we do not need more options giving a human player advantage over already handicapped AI.

 

[Arctic Circle]

I can't see the balance problem to allow for example lvl3 spell-casters more spells that create recourses - or making it possible for a beastmaster to 'pick up' (spell that removes the recourse, and gives the unit a one-shot spell that places the recourse) some animal recourses .. like deers or horses. Perhaps the ability to sacrifice a satyr to gain an random animal recourse or perhaps something like 'bananas' would not be very far-fetched?

Why couldn't workers herd cows to a different location? Given the right terrain at the destination?

Why can't you plant grapes to make wine with a worker given the right technology and the right terrain?

Its all kind of interesting things. Not that I can make it happen.

 

[mtagge]

Effectivly we already have "dynamic UU's". You need horses to make mounted units (bonus enables a unit), royal guards (civic enables a unit), priests (religion enables a unit) and druids (alignment enables a unit). Functionaly we have other options that modify created units (buildings/wonders/bonuses modify a new unit) such that though it isnt technically a UU it reaches the same conclusion (say a UU that is a scout with medic, or a wonder that has all scouts start with medic). I prefer the 2nd option because it reduces the complexity and it easier on the art team.

Unless im misunderstanding the concept.

I don't think you have it quite on the mark. Take for example Xien's example of the Ride of the Nine Kings.
Like you could have the Ride of the Nine Kings grant Mounted Mercenaries as a UU. That way if someone other than the Hippus manages to get the Wonder, they can ALSO have Mounted mercs.
While you could have the Ride give a promotion to Mercs that gives them extra moves to let them be the same as the Hippus horseman you have extra python processing when the unit is created and have some clumbsy code to make sure that it doesn't effect Hippus mercs or any other unique mercs any modmodder might make.

Also the other examples wouldn't need any art added (Hippus Merc is just used again) Same drown model, just stronger, etc.

Plus it would work great with the idea of having specialists create new wonders. The wonders would let you build dynamic UU's as a civ.

 

[Grand Seeker]

I must also add that sacrificing a great person to get a spesific resouce is NOT free.

1st: You have to get a great person
(takes some time)

2nd: You have to get a great person of the correct type
(not neccessarily extremly simple as controlling what great person you get might be difficult)

3rd: You have to use your great person to get the resource.
(ie sacrifice a golden age or a academy or an alter...)

4th: It could have an technology requierment to do it. Meaning you
cannot just plant a regent with your first great sage at the beginning of the game. You will have to wait until you get the correct technology. And the technology to 'find' mineralls or 'plant' things could be at an later stage than they would been seen naturally. Ie so if you have them naturally you will most probably get access to those resouces faster.

5th: If you still find this option powerfull, you could introduce a probability
that it will fail. Ie you sacrifice your great sage and the experiment failed.
(but I dont see the big reason)

6th: Even if you can place the resouce where you want you still have to defend that resource.

Conclution:
So even if great persons could plant regent or 'find' mithril in a hill, you will still have a reseason to fight about those resources. Fighting might be 'simpler faster and better'.

 

[orgonebox]

I've thought for a long time now that "buildable resources" should be a civ asset. Basically, if you have access to a particular resource, you should be able to put a worker on a plot and have the unit "build" another of that resource. Granted, I think that there should be a minimum of twenty turns regardless of how many workers you have piled on the plot before the resource becomes available, but would it be that hard to code? I do not, however, think the same should apply to minerals - the current bonus chance to discover the resource in a worked mine is adequate.

Strategically, building a resource doesn't resolve the whole problem of not having the resource in the first place, but it does allow the player a back-up plan for the resource acquired by settling a podunk city way out in vulnerable space, plus a trading initiative.

As for something I'd really like to see in .32, how about an option that REQUIRES the infernals in the game before the mercurian gate can be built? I know "Compact Enforced" prevents either the infernals or the mercurians from entering the game; however, as it stands, too often a goody-two-shoes AI will build the gate, go to war, and /bam/. There go my liches. Or Saverous. Or the uber-drown that's been wandering the squiggly islands on the far side of the world.

 

[Ekolite]

Oh Kael, don't know if this has been mentioned already but something that really would be nice to see in mainstream FFH is the new civ-specific city art Vehem's working on. They're awesome. He's planning on making them change subtley depending on what religion the civ is as well. They're in teh Fall Further thread.

 

[Alzara]

YES YES YES They are awesome indeed...

Al

 

[Fenboy]

I'd be happy enough with unique Palaces for all the civs, let alone unique city-sets

 

[seZereth]

actually i´d support the city set ideas, they look nice!