1.18 Civics Changes

[Leoreth]

To explain the great people specialist specific bonuses: great prophets, statesmen, and generals are the great people whose utility falls off the most late in the game. That is why each of them got a civic that buffs them by way of their settled specialist.

 

[Zaddy]

Elective was OP, it 100% earned the nerf IMO

That's interesting, I thought Elective basically shared dead last with Monarchy. Unimproved tiles are something you should generally avoid working when possible, and they could be whipped off anyways with Despotism to make something immediately useful (like a worker, so you could stop working improved tiles). The commerce on pastures made it ever so occasionally worth using. Now that Monarchy is substantially buffed I'm REALLY struggling to see a use case for Elective.

I have the urge to give more reactionary hot takes about some of the changes, but I will reserve comment for when I've played with them more.

 

[SOVNARKOM]

The republic is not as strong now, but it can still be used, but it is no longer stronger than Despotism and Monarchy when controlling more cities. I think this change is indeed in line with history,
But what is the reason for the weakening of the elective? It is already very weak (I used to only use it when building military buildings), and now except for civilizations that require changing the location of palaces, I cannot see a reason to use it

 

[1SDANi]

That's interesting, I thought Elective basically shared dead last with Monarchy. Unimproved tiles are something you should generally avoid working when possible, and they could be whipped off anyways with Despotism to make something immediately useful (like a worker, so you could stop working improved tiles). The commerce on pastures made it ever so occasionally worth using. Now that Monarchy is substantially buffed I'm REALLY struggling to see a use case for Elective.

I have the urge to give more reactionary hot takes about some of the changes, but I will reserve comment for when I've played with them more.

Low maintenance is really good, basically every civ has access to pastures and camps, and the unimproved tiles buff was just a nice ribbon bonus on top of all of that. If you didn't have any production or happiness problems and you had a decent amount of farms or cottages, Elective was just insane.

 

[spydama]

Hehehe funniest typo ever.

'Hemegony' is too.

 

[Lokki242]

I don't think I can express how happy I am to see Syncretism, and I love the move to have it much earlier in the tech tree than Tolerance had been, it makes a lot of historic sense.

 

[Leoreth]

Regarding Elective, I thought that it made camps and especially pastures (combined with Manorialism) too much into super tiles. I think people underrate the value of the unimproved tiles modifier in the early game. It is fine if Elective is a situational early game civic that is not competitive long term with other civics.

It lost Barracks and Stables more due to the introduction of Hegemony and its intent. Maybe there is something else that can go to Elective instead, but for the moment I could not think of anything.

But I will keep an eye on it, this is definitely a change I am open to reverting.

 

[TsimTsigal]

Low maintenance is really good, basically every civ has access to pastures and camps, and the unimproved tiles buff was just a nice ribbon bonus on top of all of that. If you didn't have any production or happiness problems and you had a decent amount of farms or cottages, Elective was just insane.

Ironically that is exactly why i consider Elective as one of the weakest civics in the game: it gives you a small boost to economy (or a big one, Swahili and Rus are born to use it till the day they die), but Monarchy, Republic (old) and Despotism all give you much more pointed bonuses of unlimited happiness/cheaper Jails (crucial for some early empires), specialist spam and almighty whipping, respectively. Elective is definitely an all-rounder, and that's why i dislike it.

 

[Temujin8k]

Why did Secularism lose the double production buildings?

 

[Tigranes]

• Manorialism (Calendar, low): +1 production from Pasture, +1 commerce from Farm, Paddy Field, -2 health

Does -2 apply to every farm and rice, or per city? What thoughts went into this chnage, please? Like how does this reflect realism and why it was needed for gameplay?

 

[AOS9001]

Does -2 apply to every farm and rice, or per city? What thoughts went into this chnage, please? Like how does this reflect realism and why it was needed for gameplay?

In-game it says "+2 in All Cities" so it's not per farm. I hope. RFC: Europe also has manorialism giving unhealthiness, my hunch is that it's to make the medieval plagues worse.

 

[Hickman888]

I'm loving a lot of the changes that were made here with civics (and not just because I see a lot of my ideas ingrained in them ). I'll give my first impressions on the new civic changes, with the caveat that I of course haven't really played through with them yet.

Government:​

Monarchy- Inheriting a quasi-Manorialism bonus, as well as as having great cohesion with Vassalage, wow. I think Monarchy is in a good place now. Still not too sure about replacing the double Jail production speed with a flat -25% distance maintenance, but it could work.

Republic- Early game Republic civilizations (i.e. Greece, Phoenicia, Rome) are really missing that free specialist slot that they lost in 1.18. Part of me thinks that you got tired of every other week people reporting as a bug that they haven't unlocked their free merchant slot because they haven't researched Currency yet, so you removed it. I just wanted to point out that building a Library in the early game is usually a big investment, especially in your next two cultured cities that aren't your capital. So what usually ends up happening is Republican Greece or Phoenicia will usually just have 3 free Citizen specialists for most of their historical game. Maybe Republic can get back that free specialist slot for their 3 most cultured cities?

Elective- Losing the pasture/camp and barracks/stable bonus definitely hurts, and I think Elective could use a little love. What about -50% required to expand borders out? Could help with civilizations like Mongolia who is trying to cover as much land as possible for their UHV, or Poland, who might want to culture bomb their neighbors food tiles, to help their own cities grow. Also the effect doesn't have much staying power, which is what you are going for with this civic.

Society:​

Manorialism- I think the idea is to keep your population low enough to avoid hitting the health ceiling, and instead utilize Vassalage to build with your excess . Still, I have to say I'm not a fan of +2, or negative effects for civics in general, unless the situation really calls for it.

Individualism/Egalitarianism/Totalitarianism- I like it. The dichotomy between these three late game civics seems much more balanced, and Totalitarianism got a much needed buff. It looks like there is no longer a civic to double engineer slots, which could hurt civilizations like Japan. Is there another civic we could put that effect in, with the understanding that it is a fairly powerful effect?

Legitimacy:​

Bureaucracy/Constitution/Stratocracy- My initial impression is that Constitution is good, Stratocracy a little weak but I need to play around with it to be sure, and Bureaucracy is easily S-Tier. If Bureaucracy only had the capital production bonus, as well as the capital infrastructure bonus ability, it would be a respectable civic, and competitive with Constitution. But it also has +50% capital commerce, as well as gold rushing as the icing on the cake of an already strong civic. I recommend pushing gold rushing to Constitution, changing Bureaucracy back to +50% instead of , and giving something else to Stratocracy, to keep it competitive with the other two. All gunpowder units start with Combat 1 could help, especially if you are drafting a lot.

Economy:​

Regulated Trade- With Tributaries and Colonialism losing their capital commerce buff, and there being more cities on the map for an empire to manage, my initial reaction is this civic needs a little buff. It may still be the go-to civic for small empires, but I think this civic is also meant to portray early modern mercantilist civilizations, such as France and Spain, and I think this civic should reflect them a bit better. Spitballing some ideas: Double yield/commerce from corporations in capital? Or, +0.5 in capital for every unique type of resource you have? i.e. Owning at least one Wheat, Amber, Coffee, etc. will net you 0.5 for each, but you won't receive more for more copies.

Public Welfare- I just wanted to add that I felt this civic was designed for me, and I'm glad to see it finally find a good spot between Free Enterprise and Central Planning, as a proper late game civic. So many times in the late game, I get sick of queuing up several buildings in my unimportant cities, and just tell them to build . Well this civic now allows me to do so and not feel guilty about it. Although I will miss the +1 per extra in my cities. I thought it's a cool effect, and I hope it finds its way back in the game, somehow, someway.

Territory:​

Thalassocracy: Also just wanted to comment on how much I love this new civic. Maritime civilizations are usually lacking in , as most of their tiles are out at sea. Well, the double production speed for some key coastal buildings really helps give these civilizations a little boost.

 

[Leoreth]

Why did Secularism lose the double production buildings?

It gained scientist slots instead, and I do not want to make so many late game buildings cheaper. They are already quick to build.

Does -2 apply to every farm and rice, or per city?

It's per city, it is just a phrased ambiguously in the list.

 

[CivEnthusiast]

Loving the improvement on the monarchy, finally less risks of going bankrupt from just adding a one more additional city to an empire long before we're able to reach the state party (now called state property evidently) with its absence of city maintenance

 

[TsimTsigal]

Still, I have to say I'm not a fan of +2, or negative effects for civics in general, unless the situation really calls for it.

It's quite elegant thing if you think about it. For most Medieval civs +2 is totally a non-factor, however:

1) It makes Medieval Plagues more devastating;
2) It discourages civs like India from picking it over Caste System while having little effect on historical European civs (Europe has lots of health resources but almost no luxuries);
3) It discourages from sticking to it in Industrial era where health begins to matter.

By the way, maybe move +2 to Stratocracy and give State Party faster unhappiness decay and faster production of cultural buildings (representing cult of personality), making more accent on "wide" aspect of the civic and making it more synergetic with Nationalism and Bureacracy (yes, i'm desperately trying to make gulag UP work with Soviet Russia)?

 

[Temujin8k]

I think it also reduces the potential of European cities. France and HRE are prime examples; they tend to snowball real hard especially in tech if left to grow too tall.

 

[TsimTsigal]

I think it also reduces the potential of European cities. France and HRE are prime examples; they tend to snowball real hard especially in tech if left to grow too tall.

Ehhh... not really. First, unhealthiness is nowhere as dangerous as unhappiness, you just have to pay a bit more food for potentially big returns from another pop (unlike unhappiness which makes extra pops useless). Second, European civs are constricted a lot more by happiness than by health, espeically if you spare some forests.

 

[1SDANi]

Ironically that is exactly why i consider Elective as one of the weakest civics in the game: it gives you a small boost to economy (or a big one, Swahili and Rus are born to use it till the day they die), but Monarchy, Republic (old) and Despotism all give you much more pointed bonuses of unlimited happiness/cheaper Jails (crucial for some early empires), specialist spam and almighty whipping, respectively. Elective is definitely an all-rounder, and that's why i dislike it.

Yeah, all-rounders are really hard to make fun. They're either fun but OP like old Vassalage or balanced but boring like old Elective. I ran it a lot in my games once I got my infrastructure online, but like, it did nothing to change my strategy, it was basically just a "win more" button.

 

[wcascade]

Gonna miss the +1 food per specialist from Republic

 

[Dracosolon]

It's still here in arguably better form with Isolationism, you can probably do some truly strange specialist economies now.

Some improvements seem to have been nerfed, Watermills in particular. Weaker synergy with the now weaker Republic, and no bonuses from Central Planning or Meritocracy.