1.3!

[Phoenix204]

Woohoo!

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I guess now you can tell us more about that new World of Erebus mapscript?

 

[mickyd47]

So when are you going to start uploading 1.4?

 

[Valkrionn]

I guess now you can tell us more about that new World of Erebus mapscript?

Couldn't hurt.

In the same way that ErebusContinent is Seven05's version of the FaireWeather mapscript, World of Erebus is his version of PerfectWorld2.

From our Team Forum:

The map options are based on the options used in ErebusContinent, not those in PerfectWorld2 however if you're used to using PerfectWorld2 all of it's features are in there, they're just handled by the existing options rather than being new options.

The biggest change is in the climate. ErebusContinent doesn't simulate a global climate, even when y-wrap is enabled and you have cold climate in both the north and south. WorldOfErebus simulates a global climate with multiple wind zones just like PerfectWorld2. This creates the same visual artifacts you may have seen in PerfectWorld2 where you get some odd looking straight lines of forest or jungle, those occur at the wind boundries due to the coarse resolution of Civ4 maps. I'm working on a better way to handle the boundries so that doesn't happen.

The next big change is the plate tectonics. Where ErebusContinent tries to actively encourage pangaea style worlds, WorldOfErebus does not. You still have the cohesion settings from ErebusContinent and high cohesion maps are still likely to create pangaeas however it is possible to get multiple continents on high cohesion maps. This is also where I hid PerfectWorld's 'Allow Pangaea' setting, when you select medium or low cohesion you get the same effect as not allowing pangaeas in PerfectWorld. In short, this means you will definately get multiple continents on both medium and low cohesion maps.

The 'Allow New World' option from PerfectWorld isn't needed as Cephalo and I use different methods of calculating new and old world areas. He works off a shuffled list of areas and keeps adding areas until it reaches the appropriate size for the old world, turning new worlds off bypasses the entire selection process and allows players to start anywhere. My code determines the largest continent and adds that to the old world and then goes through a sorted list of areas matching a minimum size requirement, adding areas as needed to reach a calculated minimum old world size based on the number of players. Basically, I use 'new world' to prevent players from starting alone on small landmasses and my code requires that all starting areas have at least two civs, bypassing that makes the starting positions suffer as does forcing any particular area to be unsettled. Generally, with multiple continents there will always be at least one sizeable area that is unsettled but the civs won't be piled on top of each other. If you add additional civs the total required land increases and you'll be left with nothing but small islands as the 'new world.'

I kept my forced 'margin' of water around the map edges, so unlike PerfectWorld you will never have land touching the map edges regardless of wrap settings. This eliminates visual artifacts possible at the map edges caused by the climate code and I think it is more visually appealing when your minimap doesn't have to wrap on land.

I kept the additional detail map and volcano/fissure code I use in ErebusContinent so the mountain ranges and coastlines will be more interesting than they typically are in PerfectWorld. I also kept my island cleanup code in place, this doesn't actually remove islands from the map, it just pushes small high points that would normaly become islands down below sea level so that you are more likely to have larger continents. This effect is strongest when you play with minimal or reduce flavor settings.

It is my personal favorite maptype.

 

[Cyrusfan]

Valkrionn, it's really not possible to drop 5 pounds of fat in a day, much less consecutive days. Unless you're doing like six hours of running per day, there's just no way to burn the calories that fast, even if you ate nothing. We're just strenuously advising you to be careful, that's all.

As to the upload, are you expecting to finish that (and the relevant posts here) tonight? I doubt I'll stay up til 4, I'm just wondering what the plan is at this point.

 

[Valkrionn]

So when are you going to start uploading 1.4?

No idea. Lots of work to do there, and while some of it is done (the DynamicTraits work), much of it has just been designed. Such as our magic changes.

 

[TiberiousKirk]

Woohoo! it is uploading!!! It will be the first thing I download tommorrow.

 

[Grey Fox]

Well after 1.3 is out we are probably going to let you guys at the most recent revision. Which you should only play if you always want the very latest version and don't mind if it's a bit unstable and such.

And then release more patches, which might mean that some parts of 1.4 will be out earlier for the stable release.

 

[jeffreyac]

Sincere apologies, as this has probably been said somewhere - but does 1.3 address the AI use of naval units? I didn't think so (thinking you were mainly focused on the large rewrite of the animal stuff) but was curious as I was thinking that new map sounded like fun, and I generally prefer multi-continent maps - though I've been playing RiFE with pangeas to minimize any AI limitations on naval tactics.

(at least, I think the AI in RiFE still has trouble with navies; or am I misremembering?)

 

[Valkrionn]

Woohoo! it is uploading!!! It will be the first thing I download tommorrow.

Assuming the upload doesn't up (it's happened before, as it's a long process) and ModDB approves it quickly, yes.

Well after 1.3 is out we are probably going to let you guys at the most recent revision. Which you should only play if you always want the very latest version and don't mind if it's a bit unstable and such.

And then release more patches, which might mean that some parts of 1.4 will be out earlier for the stable release.

As Grey Fox said, we are planning to allow public access to the development files. This may not take place immediately, however (need some material built up to make it worthwhile, afterall. ), and when it does, you will be using that material at your own risk. It may fix existing bugs, but it can also cause new ones... And there were several points during the 1.3 development that we introduced crash-causing errors.

Sincere apologies, as this has probably been said somewhere - but does 1.3 address the AI use of naval units? I didn't think so (thinking you were mainly focused on the large rewrite of the animal stuff) but was curious as I was thinking that new map sounded like fun, and I generally prefer multi-continent maps - though I've been playing RiFE with pangeas to minimize any AI limitations on naval tactics.

(at least, I think the AI in RiFE still has trouble with navies; or am I misremembering?)

Well, 1.3 is a very extensive update, not just Animals. But no, naval ability was not messed with yet, mostly because there are wholesale unit changes planned for 1.5 and we don't want to repeat the same work twice.

 

[Merddyn]

^_^ Any chance we can get some word on what some of the planned/theorized magic changes are relatively soon? Since I almost exclusively play the Amurites, that's going to hugely affect gameplay for me as a whole.

For example, are the spells going to maintain the same spheres as now, and are there going to be 3 tiers of spells still? Are the same basic ideas of spells going to be maintained, such as city-affecting spells like Inspiration, Wall of Stone, and Hope? And for that matter, are those going to be cast by units, or by cities, and are they going to be handled by having a building for them, or do you have to constantly maintain having a source of that mana at access in order to keep the spell effects for the city?

 

[Valkrionn]

^_^ Any chance we can get some word on what some of the planned/theorized magic changes are relatively soon? Since I almost exclusively play the Amurites, that's going to hugely affect gameplay for me as a whole.

Sometime over the next week or two, maybe. Once the final features for 1.3 (which have been moved to 1.3x patches, as they weren't strictly necessary and we wanted to release) are done, I'm going to begin the magic system; The designs are all fairly finalized, at least for Magic.

For now, I'll answer a few of the questions, vaguely.

For example, are the spells going to maintain the same spheres as now, and are there going to be 3 tiers of spells still?

Yes, spheres themselves stay the same, though they are no longer the focus as far as balance is concerned.

No, there will be no more strict 3 spells/sphere. Some may have more, some may have less. Again, spheres are not the focus of balance.

Are the same basic ideas of spells going to be maintained, such as city-affecting spells like Inspiration, Wall of Stone, and Hope?

Many spells will be changed, but the basic types (Buff, Damage, Summon, Economic) will remain the same. The only type to be removed wholesale from units will be Terraforming, which will be handled differently.

And for that matter, are those going to be cast by units, or by cities, and are they going to be handled by having a building for them, or do you have to constantly maintain having a source of that mana at access in order to keep the spell effects for the city?

Going to assume you mean spells like Inspiration specifically, here. In which case, they shall continue to be cast by units. Part of the cost of the spell is the requirement to leave a unit stationed in the city; It won't change.

That said, we will have Unit Spells, City Spells (which you'll be able to test in 1.3 in the form of World Spells and the Sidar Mist spells), and Rituals.

 

[Merddyn]

Awright... Well I thought perhaps maybe one of the costs of having the spell effect the city would be the having to maintain having a source of that mana. Having to have a source of Mind mana for Inspiration greatly changes the game over simply being able to have an adept learn it then switch that node out, or for the Amurites, have Govannon learn it and have "random archer defender #32" cast/maintain the spell in the city. That or just building the building for it instead of a single unit for multiple spells could be the cost. Aaaanyway.

I wasn't asking if there'd be a strict "3 spells per sphere" so much as if there'd be 3 tiers... IE Adept, Mage, Archmage level spells. Or if there'd be more, or even fewer than that. Or if that'd be completely thrown out and it's a spell points system that you have more of at the higher levels of Channeling equivelant/unit tier.

So how will terraforming work now? Will it still be possible to terraform an area before moving a city there, or will I have to maintain a unit in the area of the terraforming to keep it terraformed (preventing the forces of nature from once more taking hold and changing that out-of-place forest back into the desert it once was), or is that handled by a city spell, or a building like the Temple of the White hand?

Also, any hints as to, beyond those listed already, what kind of city spells there will be?

 

[OpheliaImmortal]

Did anyone else go squeeeee!! when they saw the new update was coming.. is there any way to schedule a task to automatically download the update when its uploading is complete lol?

 

[Monkeyfinger]

gibe changelog plos

 

[Valkrionn]

Awright... Well I thought perhaps maybe one of the costs of having the spell effect the city would be the having to maintain having a source of that mana. Having to have a source of Mind mana for Inspiration greatly changes the game over simply being able to have an adept learn it then switch that node out, or for the Amurites, have Govannon learn it and have "random archer defender #32" cast/maintain the spell in the city. That or just building the building for it instead of a single unit for multiple spells could be the cost. Aaaanyway.

Oh, there will be other costs associated. I've already said a few times that there will be an empire-wide Mana value, which spells require. I'd just rather have you station a unit in the city and pay x mana/turn then have the city capable of it and pay x mana/turn.

Basically... My view is that very few spells should affect just the caster like that. A city being able to give itself a building would be like a mage being able to cast Water Walking... on itself. I just don't care for it.

I wasn't asking if there'd be a strict "3 spells per sphere" so much as if there'd be 3 tiers... IE Adept, Mage, Archmage level spells. Or if there'd be more, or even fewer than that. Or if that'd be completely thrown out and it's a spell points system that you have more of at the higher levels of Channeling equivelant/unit tier.

There will continue to be 3 arcane units. There will be far more methods to specialize those units, however, and something akin to your last statement is even planned.

So how will terraforming work now? Will it still be possible to terraform an area before moving a city there, or will I have to maintain a unit in the area of the terraforming to keep it terraformed (preventing the forces of nature from once more taking hold and changing that out-of-place forest back into the desert it once was), or is that handled by a city spell, or a building like the Temple of the White hand?

Also, any hints as to, beyond those listed already, what kind of city spells there will be?

Terraforming will be done via Rituals (empire wide) and City Spells (specific city). Possibly via passive unit effects as well, though any effects there will be temporary.

In fact, all terraforming will ultimately be temporary. Uses the ClimateSystem, so unless you maintain it (paying mana to do so), it will slowly revert.

One idea for a city spell: "Necromantic Aura". All enemy units are damaged x% and gain a healing debuff. However, it costs population, as well as mana.

Things along those lines. I am planning at LEAST one per sphere.

Did anyone else go squeeeee!! when they saw the new update was coming.. is there any way to schedule a task to automatically download the update when its uploading is complete lol?

I'm not sure. I can say that 1.30.100 (the 100 is the internal revision number... Got it to a nice round number without trying, there. ) has been uploaded to ModDB, but it is NOT approved.

It just finished uploading, so it will now take several hours to a day for ModDB to approve it.

gibe changelog plos

Working on it now.

 

[Merddyn]

Okay, I'm definitely looking forward to things now... +_+ So how are the Amurites and their ability to give spellcasting ability (or in RifE right now, learn when built IE Bladedancers) to non-Mage units going to work? And the Mana Points stuff? Does each unit have a "Produces X mana" for the empire kind of thing? Do you have a flat X mana available per turn for your empire, or is it based on the number of mana nodes you have? Like if you have 2 Mind mana sources, and a Fire mana source, 20 mind mana, 10 fire mana, and 0 death mana points to distribute amongst your units that turn?

And, does each channeling-equivelant (using that term to account for Blade-Dancers having Channeling 1, and Spellswords Channeling 2, et cetera) have a limited number of mana it can actually use per turn, or a limited number of spells per turn? For example, without that limit, would I be able to have a single mage on the east side of my empire cast 15 fireballs while the one on the west side casts nothing? Or is it going to be a per-stack number of mana points? Could you have a single archmage supported by two wizards and 3 adepts, channeling forth their, let's say 5 mana per tier (including of spells) to the single archmage so he can cast 3 tier-3 spells and a single tier-1 spell, or 2 tier-3 spells and 2 tier-2 spells?

And if the tiers of spells thing is thrown out, maintaining the 5 mana per tier of spells, if you got a single adept with 15 mana per turn (either through promotions, or 2 supporting adepts, or what have you) could he cast the equivelant of a tier-3 spell? As in, let's say that Summon Wraith is 15 mana, could he cast that?

I suppose a lot of this would be easier for you to just wait and have me see when it's released, but... I'm curious. XD

... Also, I approve of that city spell idea (Necromantic Aura). I don't know how often I'll use it, but having it there will be awesome. Though, I can see it being abused if you maintain having the Creation 3 spell that increases the population of a city up to 8... Although that's hard to abuse considering as things stand you'd have to dedicate an archmage (or even more than one) to casting that each turn in a single city, and it still couldn't grow past 8.

XD On the bright side, that I'm asking all these questions is proof I AM interested in this, ne?

 

[Valkrionn]

Okay, I'm definitely looking forward to things now... +_+ So how are the Amurites and their ability to give spellcasting ability (or in RifE right now, learn when built IE Bladedancers) to non-Mage units going to work? And the Mana Points stuff? Does each unit have a "Produces X mana" for the empire kind of thing? Do you have a flat X mana available per turn for your empire, or is it based on the number of mana nodes you have? Like if you have 2 Mind mana sources, and a Fire mana source, 20 mind mana, 10 fire mana, and 0 death mana points to distribute amongst your units that turn?

Getting close to too specific for now; I'll be discussing it more soon.

For now, I'll say that the Amurites should maintain their existing mechanics, while gaining new functionality, and that Mana is mostly granted by specific resources and is untyped (though there is the possibility for discounts from possessing multiple nodes of the same type, we aren't sure on that yet).

And, does each channeling-equivelant (using that term to account for Blade-Dancers having Channeling 1, and Spellswords Channeling 2, et cetera) have a limited number of mana it can actually use per turn, or a limited number of spells per turn? For example, without that limit, would I be able to have a single mage on the east side of my empire cast 15 fireballs while the one on the west side casts nothing? Or is it going to be a per-stack number of mana points? Could you have a single archmage supported by two wizards and 3 adepts, channeling forth their, let's say 5 mana per tier (including of spells) to the single archmage so he can cast 3 tier-3 spells and a single tier-1 spell, or 2 tier-3 spells and 2 tier-2 spells?

Again, too detailed.

All I'm going to say is that each unit will have a limit on how much mana it may use in a turn.

And if the tiers of spells thing is thrown out, maintaining the 5 mana per tier of spells, if you got a single adept with 15 mana per turn (either through promotions, or 2 supporting adepts, or what have you) could he cast the equivelant of a tier-3 spell? As in, let's say that Summon Wraith is 15 mana, could he cast that?

Tiers are not thrown out, there is simply no requirement for each sphere to have a spell of each tier. However, it will be possible for an adept to gain tier-3 spells, and cast them. The balance for this is inherent to the system, and will be discussed later... It's something the team has discussed extensively.

I suppose a lot of this would be easier for you to just wait and have me see when it's released, but... I'm curious. XD

Or for when we make a blog post.

... Also, I approve of that city spell idea (Necromantic Aura). I don't know how often I'll use it, but having it there will be awesome. Though, I can see it being abused if you maintain having the Creation 3 spell that increases the population of a city up to 8... Although that's hard to abuse considering as things stand you'd have to dedicate an archmage (or even more than one) to casting that each turn in a single city, and it still couldn't grow past 8.

It's one that I'm planning on using, actually. It's not an on-the-spot idea.

 

[Merddyn]

Hehe, I figured it'd be too specific... Although I can't help but wonder how many of my ideas were actually precisely what you've been planning. =P

How soon is soon for the blog-post on it? +_+ I really can't wait to try it out. Actually, I've been looking forward to 1.4 more than 1.3 since I heard about 1.4 being the one for the spell system changes.

 

[Opera]

Not to break any joy but probably in the two following months?