2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Sommerswerd]

Okay, but I never claimed that the Union government regarded the Confederacy as a sovereign nation or a conventional enemy. I was responding to a post which claimed, falsely, that the Union government regarded Confederate soldiers as civilians.

Note that the prisoner exchanges broke down not because the Union government was unwilling to treat Confederate soldiers as POWs, but because the Confederacy insisted on treating captured black Union soldiers as revolting slaves, subject to summary execution.

Now, to move on to the actual thread topic...

I got my application for a mail-in ballot in NJ a few weeks ago and I plan to fill it out and turn it in by the end of the week. I'm still not sure whether I'll actually vote for Biden since he's gonna win NJ no matter what.

Biden is winning MA no matter what, in my estimation. I'm still voting for him on principle... and the one of those principles is this. I believe that Biden winning is the only way to get Trump out. If you believe that as well, then you recognize that people voting for Biden is the only way to make that happen. So in my view, saying "Oh I don't need to vote for Biden because other people will do it for me" is... well... let's just say I'm not willing to take that position... that I won't do what I recognize needs to be done and is well within my power to do, based on a belief that others will do it for me.

 

[Lexicus]

Biden is winning MA no matter what, in my estimation. I'm still voting for him on principle... and the one of those principles is this. I believe that Biden winning is the only way to get Trump out. If you believe that as well, then you recognize that people voting for Biden is the only way to make that happen. So in my view, saying "Oh I don't need to vote for Biden because other people will do it for me" is... well... let's just say I'm not willing to take that position... that I won't do what I recognize needs to be done and is well within my power to do, based on a belief that others will do it for me.

*shrug*
The electoral college math is what it is. If I lived in a swing state damn sure I'd vote for Biden.

 

[amadeus]

Why do you automatically assume New York is highly educated on history on average JUST because it's a solid Blue State?

At the time you posted this @cardgame had not brought red-blue states into it as far as I’ve read.

My surprise came because New York has such a high concentration of Jewish people compared to the rest of the country. I would expect more New Yorkers thus to be able to correctly answer that question.

 

[Phrossack]

I live in a far-right state. No real possibility of anyone but a Republican winning, even when the GOP aggressively tries to roll back amendments that a bipartisan majority supported.

I'm voting anyway out of civic duty because literally the only alternative to winning power through elections is seizing power through force, and I'd rather not join some American version of the People's Front of Judea.

 

[Lexicus]

What tends to get lost in the shuffle is that I actually loathe Biden. Like I really hate the dude. I'm still pissed at the Democratic primary electorate for forcing the country into a choice between Biden and Trump.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Biden is winning MA no matter what, in my estimation. I'm still voting for him on principle... and the one of those principles is this. I believe that Biden winning is the only way to get Trump out. If you believe that as well, then you recognize that people voting for Biden is the only way to make that happen. So in my view, saying "Oh I don't need to vote for Biden because other people will do it for me" is... well... let's just say I'm not willing to take that position... that I won't do what I recognize needs to be done and is well within my power to do, based on a belief that others will do it for me.

Moreover (I've said it once before), I think people in "safe" states matter. If the vote for Biden is up from Hillary (percentage and/or raw numbers) in those states, it will make it more difficult for Trump to make his case that something was rigged in the closer states. If he loses Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, he'll say (with his impeccable Trump logic) "No way I lose those states; I won them last time." Well, if it can be shown that across the board people voted against him in higher numbers, it makes it harder for him to make that case.

Run up the score!

And this one thing: One wants personally to be part of voting Trump out.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I would happily take a picture of my ballot and tweet it to Trump if I did twitter, and I live in a state that will be in the running for bluest tilt in the country.

 

[Patine]

*shrug*
The electoral college math is what it is. If I lived in a swing state damn sure I'd vote for Biden.

A vote for Biden or a vote for Trump, or any Democrat or Republican down-ballot, is, regardless, a vote for those who keep you on your knees, a vote for the plutocrats, and a vote for the war criminals and betrayers of the public trust. They are both votes against the interests of the common American people, and will not bring the change and reform needed when it's needed in the form it's needed.

and I'd rather not join some American version of the People's Front of Judea.

That would actually be the Constitution Party of the United State, one of the Third Parties institutionally marginalized electorally by the Duopoly - though, in that case, a Door Number Three that IS actually far worse. The platforms presented by any Republican candidate for U.S. President who was actually nominated, whether they actually won or lost, has ever come close to that particular party, or any other extreme far-right political parties otherwise - certainly not the '20's to 40's Fascist Parties often gone on about on this and other threads, lately, either.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

A vote for Biden or a vote for Trump, or any Democrat or Republican down-ballot, is, regardless, a vote for those who keep you on your knees, a vote for the plutocrats, and a vote for the war criminals and betrayers of the public trust. They are both votes against the interests of the common American people, and will not bring the change and reform needed when it's needed in the form it's needed.

LOL...there is really nothing to say about this post. It really can only be met with laughter.

 

[Gori the Grey]

A vote for Biden or a vote for Trump, or any Democrat or Republican down-ballot, is, regardless, a vote for those who keep you on your knees, a vote for the plutocrats, and a vote for the war criminals and betrayers of the public trust. They are both votes against the interests of the common American people, and will not bring the change and reform needed when it's needed in the form it's needed.

Both sides are bad, and since English doesn't have a word for comparative badness (we all know "badder" is not a word), that curious lacuna in our language means that if it can be established that both sides are bad, then it has been established that they are equally bad.

Edit: embarrassing cross-post with Tim, since I actually did try to say something in response to the post.

 

[Naskra]

English doesn't have a word for comparative badness (we all know "badder" is not a word)

The comparative of bad is worse.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You don't say.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You don't say.

I think he did say.

 

[Patine]

Both sides are bad, and since English doesn't have a word for comparative badness (we all know "badder" is not a word), that curious lacuna in our language means that if it can be established that both sides are bad, then it has been established that they are equally bad.

Where are the American voters who actually give a damn about their country, it's future, and the REAL changes and needed and screamed out for?

Edit: embarrassing cross-post with Tim, since I actually did try to say something in response to the post.

BTW, please to reference posts by this poster again to me. No one whose not wasting their time should.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Where are the American voters who actually give a damn about their country, it's future, and the REAL changes and needed and screamed out for?

Waiting for God Emperor Patine to save them, of course. What else can they do?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Where are the American voters who actually give a damn about their country, it's future, and the REAL changes and needed and screamed out for?

"its" shouldn't have an apostrophe.

 

[onejayhawk]

I feel bad. I went so off topic, I ruined onejawhawks fortnightly increasingly desperate assertions that Trump will win the election.

In a swelling landslide. COVID is fading, the importance of the economy is center stage, Biden is barely functional, Democrats abandoned the rule of law in favor of SJW. It's starting to roll downhill. interesting factoid. Biden is spending on media messaging. Trump is spending on the ground game. In 2016 he won every close state with a close Senate race, but only those states. This year he will have his own GotV machine.

Biden is winning MA no matter what, in my estimation. I'm still voting for him on principle... and the one of those principles is this. I believe that Biden winning is the only way to get Trump out. If you believe that as well, then you recognize that people voting for Biden is the only way to make that happen. So in my view, saying "Oh I don't need to vote for Biden because other people will do it for me" is... well... let's just say I'm not willing to take that position... that I won't do what I recognize needs to be done and is well within my power to do, based on a belief that others will do it for me.

I have seen analysis based on the 2018 race. The short version is that Trump's hard base is what you see in every poll, about 43%. They were seeking to find Biden's hard base. The conclusion was 30%-33% of virulent anti-Trump voters is Biden's base and he has none of his own. These are groups that typically turn out in much higher numbers than the national average. The benchmark for 2018 was 80%, though arguments were made for 90%.

80% of Trump's 43% yields 76 million votes, not counting any from the middle. Hillary had 66 million in 2016.

*shrug*
The electoral college math is what it is. If I lived in a swing state damn sure I'd vote for Biden.

And vice versa. This election will be about turning out the base. Obama won an otherwise tight race in 2012 by turning out his base. He probably would have won regardless, but the turnout made the decision compelling.

Moreover (I've said it once before), I think people in "safe" states matter. If the vote for Biden is up from Hillary (percentage and/or raw numbers) in those states, it will make it more difficult for Trump to make his case that something was rigged in the closer states. If he loses Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, he'll say (with his impeccable Trump logic) "No way I lose those states; I won them last time." Well, if it can be shown that across the board people voted against him in higher numbers, it makes it harder for him to make that case. Run up the score!

And this one thing: One wants personally to be part of voting Trump out.

I see no way that Biden eclipses Hillary. While he does not have her strong negatives, he also has none of her positives. He could easily come across as foolish in the debates.

Trump will run up the score. he needs the House back.

 

[Gori the Grey]

While he does not have her strong negatives,

Not having negatives is the key to this election.

 

[Lexicus]

And this one thing: One wants personally to be part of voting Trump out.

The electoral college means I can't be personally part of voting Trump out though.

 

[Gori the Grey]

and he has none of his own

If you set aside, you know, Democrats.