2020 US Election (Part Two)

[innonimatu]

Man every time I find myself even closely agreeing with you its horrible. I'm not sure what that says but its definitely negative about one of us

It's actually been about a year since I though this was the obvious strategy for Trump to play if he got on a though spot. Which is why I argued that only Bernie could defeat him this time - again. Bernie was the only one with a history of wanting to fix health care and standing for that.The only opponent he couldn't outflank by playing this card, and who'd be capable of putting forth a different, better version of healthcare to run with.

Trump can simply go back to besting Obamacare, his original hot issue, and what the hell it'll be public money anyway and deficits don't matter as the US government has been demonstrating for decades now. He'll do it badly, structure it in some way that pays a lot to portions of the healthcare lobby, the pharmaceuticals and hedge funds buying hospitals maybe, throw the insurance industry under the bus and just do it. But it'll be better for users and win him the election. Him and the republicans. It was a bloody obvious strategy even before this medical emergency.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Now this is GALL.

If you are going to interpose yourself like some sort of hall monitor in Cloud's disputes you can pretty much assume that you will take heat for it. If you are going to continue past the first request to stay out of it you can assume you will take heat from multiple sources. Is that really your objective?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's actually been about a year since I though this was the obvious strategy for Trump to play if he got on a though spot. Which is why I argued that only Bernie could defeat him this time - again. Bernie was the only one with a history of wanting to fix health care and standing for that.The only opponent he couldn't outflank by playing this card, and who'd be capable of putting forth a different, better version of healthcare to run with.

Trump can simply go back to besting Obamacare, his original hot issue, and what the hell it'll be public money anyway and deficits don't matter as the US government has been demonstrating for decades now. He'll do it badly, structure it in some way that pays a lot to portions of the healthcare lobby, the pharmaceuticals and hedge funds buying hospitals maybe, throw the insurance industry under the bus and just do it. But it'll be better for users and win him the election. Him and the republicans. It was a bloody obvious strategy even before this medical emergency.

LOL...he's gonna do all this in a tweet? Surely even from your seat in the distant bleachers you can see that that's not gonna happen, can't you?

 

[Estebonrober]

It's actually been about a year since I though this was the obvious strategy for Trump to play if he got on a though spot. Which is why I argued that only Bernie could defeat him this time - again. Bernie was the only one with a history of wanting to fix health care and standing for that.The only opponent he couldn't outflank by playing this card, and who'd be capable of putting forth a different, better version of healthcare to run with.

Trump can simply go back to besting Obamacare, his original hot issue, and what the hell it'll be public money anyway and deficits don't matter as the US government has been demonstrating for decades now. He'll do it badly, structure it in some way that pays a lot to portions of the healthcare lobby, the pharmaceuticals and hedge funds buying hospitals maybe, throw the insurance industry under the bus and just do it. But it'll be better for users and win him the election. Him and the republicans. It was a bloody obvious strategy even before this medical emergency.

Yea I know and fwiw I think McConnell would tank this effort, but I agree that it is something Trump will tweet about and vocally be supportive of even if in action he will do nothing. I mean that is his modus operandi and it works like a charm on his base who still seem to believe he is incorruptible because he is too rich to be corrupt. lmfao. morons, just stupid stupid morons.

 

[Patine]

If you are going to interpose yourself like some sort of hall monitor in Cloud's disputes you can pretty much assume that you will take heat for it. If you are going to continue past the first request to stay out of it you can assume you will take heat from multiple sources. Is that really your objective?

Why are my incorrigible statements here called out and challenged (often erroneously on false assumptions, but seemingly dutifully) by almost here, but Cloud_Strife's out-of-line commentary, which is far more vicious, venomous, slanderous, and insulting than mine by far, must be "protected and unchallenged for it's tenor," if I may ask?

 

[Lexicus]

To what? To ‘ensures’?

Nope. I have no idea what's gonna happen of course but I can easily envision the Democrats just getting outflanked on the healthcare issue and looking like morons.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Why are my incorrigible statements here called out and challenged (often erroneously on false assumptions, but seemingly dutifully) by almost here, but Cloud_Strife's out-of-line commentary, which is far more vicious, venomous, slanderous, and insulting than mine by far, must be "protected and unchallenged for it's tenor," if I may ask?

You can ask, but you may not like the answer: He's well liked.

Have you ever been to a comedy show where a heckler really tried to go to town on the headliner? It never works, even if the heckler is quicker witted and downright funnier. Partly because the guy on the stage has a microphone. Partly because honestly the chances of the heckler actually being quicker witted and funnier are really slim since that is what the guy on stage does for a living. But mostly because the guy on the stage is who the audience paid to see, so no matter how the chips fall they are predisposed to like him better. I was a class clown and cut my teeth on heckling teachers until they tossed me out, and what I learned more than anything else is that you have to play the audience as it lies. Teachers are easy because nobody likes them, but taking on a headliner is a losing proposition.

 

[Patine]

You can ask, but you may not like the answer: He's well liked.

Well, I personally have an issue with anyone who insults and slanders people, declares their beliefs and motives for them, falsely and with no real evidence, and uses this to make more personal attacks on her targets of bile - often targets (like me) who actually agree with a lot of what she does. Such a person I cannot abide by, and consider among the worst kind of posters on these forums (not the worst, but among them). And if she's popular here for these venomous tactics, I guess that speaks volumes for all of her fans - like Trump's rabid inner circle just loves him when he lays down similar, in different context, vitriol in speeches and Twitter to the tenor of Cloud_Strife. So, I guess in base mentality, you're not really so different than a hardcore Trump, in that way, are you?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, I personally have an issue with anyone who insults and slanders people, declares their beliefs and motives for them, falsely and with no real evidence, and uses this to make more personal attacks on her targets of bile - often targets (like me) who actually agree with a lot of what she does. Such a person I cannot abide by, and consider among the worst kind of posters on these forums (not the worst, but among them). And if she's popular here for these venomous tactics, I guess that speaks volumes for all of her fans - like Trump's rabid inner circle just loves him when he lays down similar, in different context, vitriol in speeches and Twitter to the tenor of Cloud_Strife. So, I guess in base mentality, you're not really so different than a hardcore Trump, in that way, are you?

Maybe. I suspect most people would find it more palatable to defend a trans-woman who is apparently not in a position to do any harm...to the point of genuinely struggling to get by...than to defend a silver spoon clogged spite spewing asshat who has used the privilege of his birth to do his best to destroy people his entire life...with significant success...and is currently making an apparent effort to bring the entire world to ruin. But if you don't register the difference in the context as significant it may explain your difficulties with audience management here.

 

[Patine]

Maybe. I suspect most people would find it more palatable to defend a trans-woman who is apparently not in a position to do any harm...to the point of genuinely struggling to get by...than to defend a silver spoon clogged spite spewing asshat who has used the privilege of his birth to do his best to destroy people his entire life...with significant success...and is currently making an apparent effort to bring the entire world to ruin. But if you don't register the difference in the context as significant it may explain your difficulties with audience management here.

Please don't play the demographic card in this matter. Demographic, as I recently told @Sommerswerd upthread on a different, but related, issue, makes succumbing to basic human flaws and failings no more or less likely in my experience. And demographic shouldn't be a "get away with odious and atrocious behaviour free card." That's just ridiculous. And, finally, as far as I know, Donald Trump does not have a CivFantatics account and I don't have to interact with his crap on these forums - but Cloud_Strife DOES have an account. And Cloud_Strife has shown support for arbitrary and unaccountable media censorship and armed vigilante thuggery beyond "community defense," but into "pre-emptive attacks," both based on being labelled as a "Fascist," by her far too great, broad, and arbitrary viewpoint from the narrow and strict definition. So, no, she gets no slack for attitude and tenor of post from me - anymore than I give anyone else.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Please don't play the demographic card in this matter. Demographic, as I recently told @Sommerswerd upthread on a different, but related, issue, makes succumbing to basic human flaws and failings no more or less likely in my experience. And demographic shouldn't be a "get away with odious and atrocious behaviour free card." That's just ridiculous. And, finally, as far as I know, Donald Trump does not have a CivFantatics account and I don't have to interact with his crap on these forums - but Cloud_Strife DOES have an account. And Cloud_Strife has shown support for arbitrary and unaccountable media censorship and armed vigilante thuggery beyond "community defense," but into "pre-emptive attacks," both based on being labelled as a "Fascist," by her far too great, broad, and arbitrary viewpoint from the narrow and strict definition. So, no, she gets no slack for attitude and tenor of post from me - anymore than I give anyone else.

I think you missed the entire point about audience management, but you asked and I did my best to answer, so I'm satisfied. Carry on, but next time you try to step in between Cloud and someone like Tristan I think the results are so easily predictable that you shouldn't have to ask what's happening.

 

[Patine]

I think you missed the entire point about audience management, but you asked and I did my best to answer, so I'm satisfied. Carry on, but next time you try to step in between Cloud and someone like Tristan I think the results are so easily predictable that you shouldn't have to ask what's happening.

As I had said, if an audience like a venomous, slanderous, fire-spiitter, and will step up for them when they're criticized or called out for it, that speaks volumes about the whole audience in question, and their beliefs and values. You've done yourself, and others of this "audience,' no favours here. I just as vigorously call out Mouthpaste, Metatron, and Commodore, who are completely and utterly unlike Cloud_Strife in rhetoric and beliefs, but their tenor and attitudes are similar.

 

[Lexicus]

As I had said, if an audience like a venomous, slanderous, fire-spiitter, and will step up for them when they're criticized or called out for it, that speaks volumes about the whole audience in question, and their beliefs and values. You've done yourself, and others of this "audience,' no favours here. I just as vigorously call out Mouthpaste, Metatron, and Commodore, who are completely and utterly unlike Cloud_Strife in rhetoric and beliefs, but their tenor and attitudes are similar.

Haha, "mouthpaste"
Fyi you still missin the point bruh

What do people think about the ethics of holding the remaining Democratic primary contests?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

As I had said, if an audience like a venomous, slanderous, fire-spiitter, and will step up for them when they're criticized or called out for it, that speaks volumes about the whole audience in question, and their beliefs and values. You've done yourself, and others of this "audience,' no favours here. I just as vigorously call out Mouthpaste, Metatron, and Commodore, who are completely and utterly unlike Cloud_Strife in rhetoric and beliefs, but their tenor and attitudes are similar.

Maybe the audience just isn't into "calling out." Or at least the tenor and attitude you bring to it. Just a thought.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Haha, "mouthpaste"
Fyi you still missin the point bruh

What do people think about the ethics of holding the remaining Democratic primary contests?

I think Sanders would do everyone a favor if he withdrew, including himself and especially the people who are part of his "movement." But I thought that before the pandemic.

 

[Patine]

Maybe the audience just isn't into "calling out." Or at least the tenor and attitude you bring to it. Just a thought.

When she calls me, outright and brazenly, a "Fascist sympathizer and enabler," in a sincere and non-ironic, non-rhetorical way, and refused to back down from, or apologize for that, that's where she crossed the line as far as I was concerned. If THOSE are the kind of vile tactics she cherishes, then it kills ALL integrity of anything she says or promotes. And any audience who thinks that kind of vile crap is acceptable, and to be defended, take a big hit in their own integrity of anything they say here. Such slanderous and vile insults and false labels to make points are indeed a trademark of Donald Trump - regardless of how much else may be different between them.

 

[Zardnaar]

When she calls me, outright and brazenly, a "Fascist sympathizer and enabler," in a sincere and non-ironic, non-rhetorical way, and refused to back down from, or apologize for that, that's where she crossed the line as far as I was concerned. If THOSE are the kind of vile tactics she cherishes, then it kills ALL integrity of anything she says or promotes. And any audience who thinks that kind of vile crap is acceptable, and to be defended, take a big hit in their own integrity of anything they say here. Such slanderous and vile insults and false labels to make points are indeed a trademark of Donald Trump - regardless of how much else may be different between them.

Both of you lean a bit towards the hyperbole.

I don't take Clouds rantings and ravings that seriously. Basically agree with what she's saying just not so much how.

Your arguements are more suitable perhaps for a university politics paper debate.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

@Patine

To be part of a community you gotta get in where you fit in. I suggest you try a different role than 'line drawer' because honestly it is a very poor fit.

 

[Patine]

@Patine

To be part of a community you gotta get in where you fit in. I suggest you try a different role than 'line drawer' because honestly it is a very poor fit.

I possibly could, BUT being slapped with such vile labels as "Fascist sympathizer and enabler," is somewhere that I do have to draw a line, moreso than many I make. In fact, it's outright unacceptable! And your circumspect defense of that kind of behaviour lowers any integrity you may appear to have, ESPECIALLY to be taking the role in this affair you are right now.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I possibly could, BUT being slapped with such vile labels as "Fascist sympathizer and enabler," is somewhere that I do have to draw a line, moreso than many I make. In fact, it's outright unacceptable! And your circumspect defense of that kind of behaviour lowers any integrity you may appear to have, ESPECIALLY to be taking the role in this affair you are right now.

I'm genuinely trying to help you out here, believe it or not.