2nd UU and 2nd UB for DoC
- Thread starter merijn_v1
- Start date
Qiu
Warlord
Early levee might be overpower. So what about farms or cottages near the river titles +1
or 1
or 1
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Hello, merijn_v1. Glad to hear that you are going to creat a 2nd UB/UU mod for DoC. I have contributed this great news to one of the most popular Chinese RFC-mods funs forum, and sent out a questionnaire there. Finally I received more than 160 replies. I hope the following ideas collected from the replies would be of help.
2nd UB
A suggestion that I personally regard as the most "Chinese feeling" is "family altar", an idea contributed by wyd1986. Family altar is a place we Chinese people worship our ancestors. Through such activies we show our filial piety, which is particularly emphasised in Chinese culture, and strengthen our spirit and solidarity. It may replace the pagan temple, and could provide,
and stability together with Confucianism, even if a state religion has been adopted. RFCA has already adopted it as the UB of Zhou Empire, so I guess the art could be easily imported from there. More details about family altars can be found on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_hall
A more popular idea is linked with rivers and canals. As a general speaking, the Chinese civilization is a continental-civilization or a canal-civilization. Water transportation have played an important role in Chinese history. We considered the two great rivers as our Mother Rivers, as well as large quantities of poetry and literature has been dedicated to them. The ancient Chinese people even built a grand canal as early as 581618 CE. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canal_(China)). And as you see, China owns lots of river titles in the game. So maybe an early levee replacement (ex. wharf) could be a candidate of the Chinese 2nd UB.
Other ideas include Palace replacement (emperor's residence), courthouse (mandarin's office), university (shuyuan or Academies of Classical Learning). (I think the university replacement has been seriously discussed here, and Leoreth has adopted the idea by introducing a library UB.) I am very glad to explain the above ideas in detail if you would like to inquire.
I'm glad you like this modcomp.
If the people on the Chinese forum think that the Family Altar if most "typical" Chinese, I will go for that one. You know better what suites you then I do. I agree with Leoreth about that the Grand Canal should be a Wonder.
The art won't be a problem. It's a vanilla building from Warlords.
2nd UU
About the 2nd UU, the most popular idea seems to be Kung-fu, which I think doesn't work in such a historical simulation mod.
Many guys suggested great general UU, which has been presented as an UP in CIV5. Though I wonder if is technically available. Others recalled CIV3, and suggested a cavalry UU. y_3237 even suggested a confucianism missionary UU, who can immediately build a family altar and bring certain
The idea intrested me most is contributed by bushibuwen and wyd1986. It is a levy replacement named Fubing. Fubing is a local militia system existing in China between 6th century and 8th century, and formed the military basis of the Tang dynasty, the one perhaps owned strongest military power among the ancient Chinese dynasties. They can be much more powerful than normal levies, but cannnot leave border or suffer a great loss beyond the border , to represent the traditional Chinese point of view (or clichés) among the peasants: "your homeland is perfectly good, do not leave your homeland". And it might be beneficial for the consideration of game balance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fubing_system
Maybe arts can also be imported from RFCA.
Early levee might be overpower. So what about farms or cottages near the river titles +1
The "Cannot leave border" part is something I can't code. So this one won't be it. What do you people of the Chinese forum think of the Ancient Cannon?
Personally, I think that an UU should replace a missionary (or a settler). When it is a missonary, you can only build it with a certain religion. I want to make the player "always" able to build their UU.
I can't code the levee-UB either. But that doesn't really mind, because the Family Altar will probably the 2nd UB.
Qiu
Warlord
Ancient Cannon could gain a lot of support, I think. In fact many people suggested gunpower-based UU.
Niceboat
Chieftain
Qiu?
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Leoreth, about that 'leaving borders' thing : FFH2 has a promotion which gives +10% strength inside your borders, IIRC (Homeland). The civic Nationhood in RIFE also gives strength inside your borders. Maybe you could look at their code to mimic it? After all, the unit does not have to be restricted to the Chinese borders, it could also just gain a strength boost inside Chinese borders.
What's bothering me more is the fact that the Levy is a direct counter to the Keshik.
What's bothering me more is the fact that the Levy is a direct counter to the Keshik.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Obsolete options:
(1) Replaceable Parts (too early?);
(2) Chemistry;
(3) Steam Power;
(4) Railroad;
(5) Combustion (too late?).
I also suggest making this Wonder NOT require Confucianism, but Calendar + Machinery.
Also, is this going to apply for River Tiles in one city (like Great Cothon), or in all cities (like Colossus)? In the latter case +1 Commerce may be enough already.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Merijn, about that 'leaving borders' thing : FFH2 has a promotion which gives +10% strength inside your borders, IIRC (Homeland). The civic Nationhood in RIFE also gives strength inside your borders. Maybe you could look at their code to mimic it? After all, the unit does not have to be restricted to the Chinese borders, it could also just gain a strength boost inside Chinese borders.
What's bothering me more is the fact that the Levy is a direct counter to the Keshik.
What's bothering me more is the fact that the Levy is a direct counter to the Keshik.
That's no problem for me (using DLL, don't know if there's a way to do it in Python), but I don't develop this modmod and wouldn't want to get involved here to much or else I'd be obligated to maintain it, too.
I think early is better, and I had only one city in mind (thought this is what the Colossus does, I was wrong). I agree that it doesn't have to be limited to China.
Missionary UUs are problematic because they would require 9 UUs per civ.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
*Facepalm* I read Merijn's post and thought it was you who wrote it, being the maker of RFC-DoC and all. Sorry. I edited my previous post.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Even if the code is already "available", I still have to merge it in, which is also something I'm not capable of.
I'm against missionary UU. Like Leoreth said, you need 9 UU. It could also replace just 1 missionary (like the Confucian Missionary), but then you are somewhat forced to Confucianism. I think that the player should be given the freedom to choose it's religion, and still can build their UU.
In general, I favor "conventional"-units over "special"-units. (With the exception of the Worker)
merijn_v1
Black Belt
The Coffeeshops they have weren't important until the mid-20th century, so the cultural impact isn't that big. BTW, what should it replace? (I don't like it if it replaces the grocer or market, because they come to early)
I even think that the Molen had a much bigger impact on the Dutch history than the Coffeeshop. First of all, the Molens were used to drain the land, so they had extra land to grab. If Molens didn't exist, the Netherlands would be about halve the size as it is now. Even back then they were very important to the Dutch.
Secondly, the Mills were very important for the Dutch navy in the 16th and 17th century. By a certain mechanism (IIRC, only the Dutch used it), the Molens could saw the trees much more accurate and much, much faster than the traditional way. The lumber the Molens produced were used for ships.
BTW, I know that Molen is the Dutch translation of Mill. I'm Dutch myself.
I even think that the Molen had a much bigger impact on the Dutch history than the Coffeeshop. First of all, the Molens were used to drain the land, so they had extra land to grab. If Molens didn't exist, the Netherlands would be about halve the size as it is now. Even back then they were very important to the Dutch.
Secondly, the Mills were very important for the Dutch navy in the 16th and 17th century. By a certain mechanism (IIRC, only the Dutch used it), the Molens could saw the trees much more accurate and much, much faster than the traditional way. The lumber the Molens produced were used for ships.
BTW, I know that Molen is the Dutch translation of Mill. I'm Dutch myself.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Well, Koffieshops should replace Supermarkets if you want the time to fit.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
That's true, but the Supermarket comes kinda late. Too late IMO. What would the bonus be? Plain 
is a bit lame IMO. (And it would look too much like the American Mall) And I think the Molen was much more important.
is a bit lame IMO. (And it would look too much like the American Mall) And I think the Molen was much more important.
