35 hour workweek

[bhsup]

55-60/65 hours per week on average. On one of the off weeks where I work 5 instead of 6 days, cut that down to 50-55 hours.

Idle hands are the Devil's playground, attested to by the fact that I sometimes spend slow periods at work surfing CFC OT.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Forty hours is the norm in America. Since I'm a full-time college student as well, I tend to only work ~20-25 hours a week, though forty-hours' work their way in there sometimes.

 

[Grisu]

Very good point,but I think basically France and most of the French (though not all) have said "frack having the best economy in the world, I want to enjoy life". Ergo the 35-hour week.

that's the french for you, I have to admit I kinda like the mindset wouldn't work here though, calvinist ideas are still rooted in swiss society (someone not working full time is still viewed as a lazy bum)

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

By comparison Americans, and even Brits, work many and long hours. The question is just if that's an efficient use of time. There's a lot of very tired people just filling slots a lot of the time, if you round up a bunch of people with an 80 hour week under their belt.

We need to work more hours because of the tea breaks.

 

[BasketCase]

A Ford factory worker who only works 35 hours a week, is turning out fewer cars.

A guy at Sony stamps fewer Three Days' Grace albums.

A worker at RayBan turns out fewer pairs of sunglasses.


Less work means a lower living standard, not just for the worker, but all around. Just another one of those not-so-nice truths that doesn't have a simple workaround. I'm willing to turn extra shifts, which is why I have this nice extra pair of sunglasses and you don't.

 

[Grisu]

I'm willing to turn extra shifts, which is why I have this nice extra pair of sunglasses and you don't.

yeah, but he actually has the time to go out and enjoy the sun, while you're stuck at work with your cool shades

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

yeah, but he actually has the time to go out and enjoy the sun, while you're stuck at work with your cool shades

Or he has a pair that doesn't say "RayBan" on the side which do the job equally well and don't cost half a day's wage.

 

[Steph]

The law when it was introduced was quite stupid, as the legal working time was reduced from 39 to 35, without loss of salary, and without compensation for the companies.
As a result, instead of hiring more people and reducing unemployement, companies usually asked their employees to do in 35 hours what they did in 39 hours. Moreover, some companies said "as you work less for the same salary, we consider it to be a disguised increased of your salary +10%, and so you will not be raised for the next few years..."

 

[Goa]

Less work means a lower living standard.

And here is a debatable argument. For a lot of people (me included), a high living standard means the combination of enough money and enough spare time, and not only the former one.
So less work can mean a higher living standard.
Whether the 35h present the maximum is of course debatable.

 

[Steph]

Once upon a time, a wealthy American businessman was in a trip, near a small African village on the coast.
He observed a fisherman, who would some day go out with is little canoe, fish a while and as the water there were full of fishes, he quickly came with enough to feed his familly. When he didn't feel like fishing, he just napped under the palm trees.

After a while, the American approached the African and said:
- You know, with all the fishes here, if you would work everyday, you would get more fish.
- What for? I have enough for my familly
- Yes, but if you had more, you could sell it.
- What for?
- With the money, you could buy a bigger boat, so you could take more fish.
- To what purpose?
- Well, you could then have enough to hire some crewmen, get more fishes, buy other boats... Soon, you would have a large fishing company and become very rich.
- And what would I do when I'm rich?
- You could retire, rest when you want, and go fishing when you want!

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

I knew that story would be posted sometime or another. Have you memorised it Steph

I notice that it's no longer a Mexican fisherman. How times have changed

 

[Shaihulud]

Offcially i work 55hrs a week, but its more like 60hrs a week or more with no overtime pay. Working 35hrs a week and getting the job done is efficiency!

 

[Steph]

I knew that story would be posted sometime or another. Have you memorised it Steph

I know it in French and translated it on demand.

 

[JerichoHill]

Yeah, government jobs are usually pretty good for life/work balance

Indeed they are. We normally have 1 baby in the office. Alot of the lawyers tele-work some days. I do flex-time so I can take extra time off

Stop waisting my tax dollars you slacker !!!

I wish I was a direct employee instead of a contracted worker for the feds.

We work very hard when the cases come in. Right now there's a lull.

This is a bit of phony economics though. Of course one should expect greater productivity per hour if one works fewer hours; it is human nature to get tired and experience a decrease in producivity over longer hours. To consider the overall health of the economy, amount of output, and overall productivity, the 35 hour work week is less healthy for the economy than the 40 hour work week.

You could easily argue that the 35 hour work week is more healthy for the person though.

~Chris

Thats not necessarily true. Its a extrapolation from a simple concept, but there are many other competing factors. You're basically saying that youre holding everything else constant, but reality speak otherwise. Besides, I dont honestly think people work a flat 40 hour week...no watercooler talk?

 

[JerichoHill]

that's the french for you, I have to admit I kinda like the mindset wouldn't work here though, calvinist ideas are still rooted in swiss society (someone not working full time is still viewed as a lazy bum)

Yeah. Except it kills their growth rate.

Less work means a lower living standard, not just for the worker, but all around. Just another one of those not-so-nice truths that doesn't have a simple workaround.

Correct.

Once upon a time, a wealthy American businessman was in a trip, near a small African village on the coast.
He observed a fisherman, who would some day go out with is little canoe, fish a while and as the water there were full of fishes, he quickly came with enough to feed his familly. When he didn't feel like fishing, he just napped under the palm trees.

After a while, the American approached the African and said:
- You know, with all the fishes here, if you would work everyday, you would get more fish.
- What for? I have enough for my familly
- Yes, but if you had more, you could sell it.
- What for?
- With the money, you could buy a bigger boat, so you could take more fish.
- To what purpose?
- Well, you could then have enough to hire some crewmen, get more fishes, buy other boats... Soon, you would have a large fishing company and become very rich.
- And what would I do when I'm rich?
- You could retire, rest when you want, and go fishing when you want!

That's a very bad story that falsely portrays production processes. Once he had money he'd be paying for others to do the work and he'd be managing it all from a big boat in Hawaii. Come on! Home Depot?

 

[Verbose]

A Ford factory worker who only works 35 hours a week, is turning out fewer cars.

A guy at Sony stamps fewer Three Days' Grace albums.

A worker at RayBan turns out fewer pairs of sunglasses.

Ah, but here's the thing. The productivity of the plant isn't set by hours alone, but by the mechanical production capacity and how efficient the workers are at their job.

If workers with a 35h week, working in shifts, manage to be more productive per hour than those with a 40h week, that factory will be the winner.

(Though in reality that kind of work is now done by robots, who may experience breakdown, but not fatigue. Working man is analog in productivity. Machines are binary.)

It's not just about how long you work, but how efficiently you work. At some point fatigue sets in and productivity drops. A manager who keeps people not performing at their peak around is a fool, if it's a simple matter of calling in a new shift.

This is part the basis for the European notion of shortening the work-week. The other is that these people are assumed to be doing something useful for society in their time off. I.e. there is more to life, and society at large, than simply work.

 

[Steph]

That's a very bad story that falsely portrays production processes. Once he had money he'd be paying for others to do the work and he'd be managing it all from a big boat in Hawaii. Come on! Home Depot?

That's a very good story very badly understood. Read it again carefuly and try to find the moral of the story.
Hint: it has few to do with the production processes, and much to do with the purpose of working.

 

[Grisu]

Correct.

nope, like Goa said, both you and BasketCase seem to assume that living standard solely (or at least mainly) consists of the money you earn. For me, time is a precious commodity and I'll gladly give up some money in exchange for free time. Which means I think the living standard of the person working 38h and earning maybe 60k is higher (for me) than that of the guy working 50-60h earning 120k. But that's up for everybody to decide for themselves.

 

[Steph]

This is part the basis for the European notion of shortening the work-week. The other is that these people are assumed to be doing something useful for society in their time off. I.e. there is more to life, and society at large, than simply work.

And with more free time, he will spend more and contributes to the growth

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

nope, like Goa said, both you and BasketCase seem to assume that living standard solely (or at least mainly) consists of the money you earn. For me, time is a precious commodity and I'll gladly give up some money in exchange for free time. Which means I think the living standard of the person working 38h and earning maybe 60k is higher (for me) than that of the guy working 50-60h earning 120k. But that's up for everybody to decide for themselves.

Agreed. I would gladly pay the money I can earn by working the weekend to spend the weekend with my Son instead.