3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

[pineappledan]

Sorry, I don't know how to re-enable, or reverse whatever has happened, but I feel confident in saying this is a local install problem.

There might be an option in Steam to restore default settings on your local installation, but I would reinstall everything, including your civ V base game

 

[Harold Smith]

Ah so you think something just went wrong in my file infrastructure so much so that I'd have to scrap it all huh. Is that what you think is going on with the unique components though? Because everyone I play with in the modpack is having the issue with the resources not spawning as they should. And also how do you properly clean out the civ 5 game from scratch?

 

[pineappledan]

You’re playing multiplayer? Are you playing with a multiplayer mod pack? You can’t just play with mods normally in multiplayer, you have to install them as if they are DLC

Yeah that changes things; I don’t know what the problem would be because I don’t do multiplayer. Maybe check with MoiMagnus and the Magnus Mutatio.

 

[adan_eslavo]

If I did, can you walk me through properly on how to enable it? And all the UI mods work fine. Except Improved City View V11. I had to delete that because it would not let me choose any buildings at all and thus couldn't end my turn. It looked like this:

https://ibb.co/X2qgx1k

I have my mod load order loading Improved City View (V11) after (6A) Community Balance Overhaul - Compatibility Files. I've had no luck fixing this issue with reinstalling the game and clearing the cache. My Lua.log also has these entries in them:

[35132.187] Runtime Error: Assets\DLC\MP_MODSPACK\Mods\Improved City View (Vox Populi - with EUI) (v 11)\UI\CityView.lua:1697: attempt to index field 'NoAutoSpecialistsCheckbox' (a nil value)
[35134.937] Runtime Error: Assets\DLC\MP_MODSPACK\Mods\Improved City View (Vox Populi - with EUI) (v 11)\UI\CityView.lua:1697: attempt to index field 'NoAutoSpecialistsCheckbox' (a nil value)
[35158.875] Runtime Error: Assets\DLC\MP_MODSPACK\Mods\Improved City View (Vox Populi - with EUI) (v 11)\UI\CityView.lua:1697: attempt to index field 'NoAutoSpecialistsCheckbox' (a nil value)
[35158.890] Runtime Error: Assets\DLC\MP_MODSPACK\Mods\Improved City View (Vox Populi - with EUI) (v 11)\UI\CityView.lua:1697: attempt to index field 'NoAutoSpecialistsCheckbox' (a nil value)

Did you use patch from Gazebo/Tu_76 for v11? Link from op contains incompatible version.

 

[Jiggly]

When playing Aztec I think the # of kills to upgrade to their Eagle units should be at least half. Unless im missing something its practically impossible to get 10 kills before the unit becomes obsolete via tech upgrades by other civs. Too hard to fight swordsman and higher units with slightly better warriors. I guess if you played on Marathon or something you might have enough time for 10 kills but on standard i think its pretty rare to have 10 kills before a upgrade is needed to survive. Just my opinion. Let me know what you think.

 

[Asterix Rage]

When playing Aztec I think the # of kills to upgrade to their Eagle units should be at least half.

A while ago, I've had this thought as well. I don't remember the details. It was in Marathon

 

[Harold Smith]

So you think the resources not appearing could be a modpack issue? If so, I will talk to Moi Magnus.

 

[pineappledan]

When playing Aztec I think the # of kills to upgrade to their Eagle units should be at least half. Unless im missing something its practically impossible to get 10 kills before the unit becomes obsolete via tech upgrades by other civs. Too hard to fight swordsman and higher units with slightly better warriors. I guess if you played on Marathon or something you might have enough time for 10 kills but on standard i think its pretty rare to have 10 kills before a upgrade is needed to survive. Just my opinion. Let me know what you think.

Let you guys in on a secret: I made turning a jaguar into an eagle almost impossible on purpose.

I didn't want people to be able to get a swordsman that early, but people demanded some extra bonus for Eagles. Eagles and Jaguars were military societies, but eagles were the more elite, and you could only join their ranks after having captured 10 enemies in combat. So the 10 has specific historical validity, but also 5 would just be way too low. You could get a string of easy barbarian kills and manage 5 kills by turn 50, and now you have a swordsman while many people still havent built their first chariot. No. Better that the bonus be unattainable than be attainable before anyone even reaches classical.

 

[Jiggly]

Let you guys in on a secret: I made turning a jaguar into an eagle almost impossible on purpose.

I didn't want people to be able to get a swordsman that early, but people demanded some extra bonus for Eagles. Eagles and Jaguars were military societies, but eagles were the more elite, and you could only join their ranks after having captured 10 enemies in combat. So the 10 has specific historical validity, but also 5 would just be way too low. You could get a string of easy barbarian kills and manage 5 kills by turn 50, and now you have a swordsman while many people still havent built their first chariot. No. Better that the bonus be unattainable than be attainable before anyone even reaches classical.

Then I just built this last games strategy around this Easter Egg ability by not Tech-ing up military first hoping for my eventual eagles would allow me to have my cake and eat it too.

Ill show you! I will upgrade these damn eagles if it takes me to the damn Atomic Era. Keep them on hand for last hits of low hp tanks!

 

[Jiggly]

Also you might consider adding additional Faith bonus upon killing with Jaguar units specifically as i was steady killing barbarians, city state warriors and other player units and had God of War pantheon and still had only half the faith needed for a prophet before all the religions got snatched up on diety. I hate playing religious based Civs and not getting the religion. I usually just start over.

 

[pineappledan]

I’m not going to rebalance civs beyond the components added in 4UC. If you have a balance concern with the Aztec’s ability to found, then that is a base VP balance concern.

fwiw, I haven’t had much difficulty founding with Aztecs

 

[Drakle]

Let you guys in on a secret: I made turning a jaguar into an eagle almost impossible on purpose.

I didn't want people to be able to get a swordsman that early, but people demanded some extra bonus for Eagles. Eagles and Jaguars were military societies, but eagles were the more elite, and you could only join their ranks after having captured 10 enemies in combat. So the 10 has specific historical validity, but also 5 would just be way too low. You could get a string of easy barbarian kills and manage 5 kills by turn 50, and now you have a swordsman while many people still havent built their first chariot. No. Better that the bonus be unattainable than be attainable before anyone even reaches classical.

Except it isn't that hard on Epic, let alone Marathon which a lot of players use, and it would be actually almost impossible on quick, bar some crazy husbanding of unit, to carry over a woodsman promotion. That is why every other mechanic uses game speed scaling. Getting attached to a single number because of some vague historical factoid is silly, when it throws off the game balance so hard.

And that rationale makes the Eagle a even more lacking UU, if playing 'as intended' on standard. I've barely used the free workers it gives, because I've largely already bought workers from the gold my Jaguars farmed. And I'd be getting them even later, as non experienced units who I have to research then build, then deploy. The main worthwhile aspect of Eagles, is the elite upgraded ones, not their particular actual abilities.

And this means that there is barely any incentive to keep Jaguars around, and instead might as well upgrade them to spearman, bar a few that would have to be carefully husbanded to be the finishing blow.

Anyway @Jiggly I really don't know how you are having trouble hitting religion with Aztecs and God of War. I've found it easy to found with Aztecs non 3rd and 4th modded on standard with Goddesss of Protection (missed God of War) and even easier modded as both a Wide Empire and OCC with God of War on Epic. Are you playing on Quick?

Aztecs and God of War is honestly the quickest reliable path to a religion. They are one of the few civs that can found in the Ancient era, with no luck with natural wonders or city states.

 

[Jiggly]

Except it isn't that hard on Epic, let alone Marathon which a lot of players use, and it would be actually almost impossible on quick, bar some crazy husbanding of unit, to carry over a woodsman promotion. That is why every other mechanic uses game speed scaling. Getting attached to a single number because of some vague historical factoid is silly, when it throws off the game balance so hard.

And that rationale makes the Eagle a even more lacking UU, if playing 'as intended' on standard. I've barely used the free workers it gives, because I've largely already bought workers from the gold my Jaguars farmed. And I'd be getting them even later, as non experienced units who I have to research then build, then deploy. The main worthwhile aspect of Eagles, is the elite upgraded ones, not their particular actual abilities.

And this means that there is barely any incentive to keep Jaguars around, and instead might as well upgrade them to spearman, bar a few that would have to be carefully husbanded to be the finishing blow.

Anyway @Jiggly I really don't know how you are having trouble hitting religion with Aztecs and God of War. I've found it easy to found with Aztecs non 3rd and 4th modded on standard with Goddesss of Protection (missed God of War) and even easier modded as both a Wide Empire and OCC with God of War on Epic. Are you playing on Quick?

Aztecs and God of War is honestly the quickest reliable path to a religion. They are one of the few civs that can found in the Ancient era, with no luck with natural wonders or city states.

No playing on standard diety. Dunno why, maybe a fluke...

 

[pineappledan]

Play however you want @Drakle. I balance for standard speed, but if you want to add more/less kills to cuauocelotl then do as you like. I’d just as soon remove the promotion entirely; I never liked it to begin with. i only added it because People begged and pleaded for more things for the Eagle.

Fwiw, I’m not changing the Eagle any more beyond bug fixes/tweaks. The code is written as is, and art assets have been donated. I consider the design final at this point.

 

[Drakle]

No playing on standard diety. Dunno why, maybe a fluke...

Yeah, maybe your game was really stacked with religious civs, or those who got lucky with city states or wonders. Or maybe you didn't get the Aztec early unit spam up and running quite right. As Aztecs, I normally go Monument - Jaguar - Jaguar. Before the free starting warrior, it was Jaguar, Monument, Jaguar. After that, I normally then buy more Jaguars with gold (No Exp to lose), after the initial worker and sometimes build some more, depending on how things go. Really you can't go wrong, going to just below your unit cap in Jaguars early game.

Play however you want @Drakle. I balance for standard speed, but if you want to add more/less kills to cuauocelotl then do as you like. I’d just as soon remove the promotion entirely; I never liked it to begin with. i only added it because People begged and pleaded for more things for the Eagle.

Fwiw, I’m not changing the Eagle any more beyond bug fixes/tweaks. The code is written as is, and art assets have been donated. I consider the design final at this point.

Really not sure why you would threaten to remove the only interesting part of a UU, but you do you, man. If you did remove that promotion, I would just largely stop using Eagles, bar a few dedicated city assault infantry. Jaguar - Spearman have a less combat power, but have far better mobility which is really needed considering where the Aztecs usually spawn, and are good in both rough terrains from jaguar promotions and open terrain for spear line promotions. And in the future when the lines merge, I rate the free woodsman and combat power in forests over Sentry. As I said, the worker bonus has very little utility, which is why people complained.

But anyway, I wasn't asking to get rid of the Eagle, just thought it should be speed scaled. I play Epic anyway, and I consider 10 to be about right for that. Do you have a grudge because I have issues with the Khopesh?

 

[Hinin]

Sorry to interrupt your friendly conversation, but I did manage to obtain an eagle before classical era during several games. Just had to make sure one of my units got most of the finishing blows on barbarians (and the buffed warriors of Bismarck for example in one game). Yes you won't have an army of these buffed Eagles, but one or two of these bad boys can cleary wreak havoc quite a bit in the early game (which is one of the main goals when playing Aztecs, isn't it ?), and so help you trigger your GA. As for producing Eagles later in the game, it's mostly dependant on what type of opponent you face, and your gold/production. Upgraded-jaguars are very good units when massed in forested zones, while Eagles are more useful as all-around units in a mixed force or in hilly/non-rough terrain, where their additionnal vision and their buffed stats allows you to be more proactive. Also, don't hesitate to sell your workers when you have enough of them : a bit of gold every few turns always helps.

In any cases, the Jaguar is still the emblematic UU of the Aztecs in the MUCfVP modmod, since it defines so much of the Aztec playstyle. The Eagle is more of a "cherry on top" UC (the unique UW, by comparison, has a lot more impact when built-around).

As for the Aztec faith bonus, it is indeed not sufficient alone, but it's still a very good tool to supplement your pantheon : choose wisely depending on your playstyle, and use the early harassing of the Jaguars to ruin your neighbours early game while ensuring that you'll found your religion (usually among the 3 first, but, as always, it depends on what other civs are around).

 

[adan_eslavo]

This is an ability for human players, which AI won't pursue, am I right?

 

[Hinin]

This is an ability for human players, which AI won't pursue, am I right?

That's a valid point : that is the main weakness of that design element. The question would be : does Monty manage to be powerful despite not having access to that kind of advantage in the early game ?

I just played a game with Assyria, and have some elements to mention :
- with the rework of the skirmisher line, the Iron Chariot now has the open terrain bonus/rough terrain malus of the skirmishers, despite being a melee unit. It is a flavorful element, but it isn't balanced with the base CP of the unit, so what do we do ? Also, the unit description needs to be reworked, since the unit doesn't have the "rough terrain movement malus" anymore ;
- the CP of the Iron Chariot begins at 13, and not 12 as indicated on the unit card, that's kind of strange (not taking into account the unique promotions of course) ;
- concerning the unique CP promotion of the unit, by the way, I don't really understand how it works : do I conserve the CP bonus even when trading away iron and horses (had a case where I had 2 15 CP Iron Chariots while having 4 horses, but trading 2 away) ?
- the unique wall offers one less bonus CP to the city than the base Walls.

 

[josephrandall]

Hey Dan, I was hoping you could explain this code to me. Its India's Qila code. I don't understand code very well. Im looking for the part that adds the 25HP for each national and world wonder.

The Code is written like this:


-- add defense per Wonder and convert defense to culture
function DefenseToCulture(iPlayer)
local pPlayer = Players[iPlayer]
if not (pPlayer and (pPlayer:GetCivilizationType() == eCivilizationIndia or pPlayer:GetCivilizationType() == eCivilizationRome)) then return end
local iNumberOfQilas = pPlayer:CountNumBuildings(eBuildingQila)
if iNumberOfQilas > 0 then
local iCurrentQila = 0

for city in pPlayer:Cities() do
if city:IsHasBuilding(eBuildingQila) then
-- 1 Defense per National or World Wonder in City
local iDefenseChange = city:GetNumWorldWonders() + city:GetNumNationalWonders()

city:SetNumRealBuilding(eBuildingDummyForQila1, iDefenseChange)
-- 10% Defense converted to culture in City
local iCultureChange = 0.002 * city:GetStrengthValue()

city:SetNumRealBuilding(eBuildingDummyForQila2, iCultureChange)
iCurrentQila = iCurrentQila + 1
if iCurrentQila == iNumberOfQilas then
break
end
end
end
end
end
if Game.IsCivEverActive(eCivilizationIndia) then
GameEvents.PlayerDoTurn.Add(DefenseToCulture)
end

 

[pineappledan]

The 25 hp is added by iDefenseChange. It used to add 1city defense per wonder, but that was too strong with how city CS works now. That’s why all the verbiage still refers to defense, rather than HP.

ebuildingDummyForQila is defined in a part of the code you haven’t copied here. The BUILDING_DF_QILA is encoded in the !Dummies.sql file