3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

[SpankmyMetroid]

By the way @SpankmyMetroid, what do you think of the additionnal UCs for Egypt ?

Mamluks were a house and allowed me to play extremely fast and loose with actions that would have sacrificed the units otherwise... which is good, means the enemy didn’t really have time to reinforce. Blitz on them was just disgustingly good, imagine being able to attack twice and still getting three or more movement points to get to the backlines. Like I said in the original post, they were able to stand toe to toe with winged hussars. I haven’t played too many games with 4UC yet so can’t say how well they stack against all the other new units, but compared to the three I did (celts, zulu, and ethiopia) Mamluks were far more impactful, something I didn’t really expect from a civ that isn’t really kitted for domination.

The UB was interesting but the resource generation didn’t synergize too well with my game since I had 0 other plantation luxuries (or bananas) in my core cities... they also messed with farm triangles and the extra bonuses over the watermill were mostly forgettable. I’d imagine they would be great to get a little bit of an extra push to founding especially since Egypt tends to run tall. I also do wonder what would happen if you decide to annex a city with the UB destroyed, generate two flax by building it, raze the city, and build an brand new one on the same tile? Probably not worth the effort but would be funny to see a river of flax.

Still, neither really synergized with Egypt’s kit (not nearly as much as war chariots which were a godsend for early wonders). Maybe it would be cool if either of them had an attribute that scaled up based on the number of wonders you owned (or number of wonders created in that city)?

 

[pineappledan]

The UB was interesting but the resource generation didn’t synergize too well with my game since I had 0 other plantation luxuries (or bananas) in my core cities... they also messed with farm triangles and the extra bonuses over the watermill were mostly forgettable. I’d imagine they would be great to get a little bit of an extra push to founding especially since Egypt tends to run tall. I also do wonder what would happen if you decide to annex a city with the UB destroyed, generate two flax by building it, raze the city, and build an brand new one on the same tile? Probably not worth the effort but would be funny to see a river of flax.

Even easier, you could just sell and rebuild the building, which is why Adan specifically addressed this in the resource placement code, so a city only ever gets the flax the first time it builds a nilometer. Mind you, that still means you can raze and resettle a city to the same effect.

Still, neither really synergized with Egypt’s kit (not nearly as much as war chariots which were a godsend for early wonders). Maybe it would be cool if either of them had an attribute that scaled up based on the number of wonders you owned (or number of wonders created in that city)?

Didn't want to make any of the synergies too tight. If possible, we tried to avoid doubling-down on things if a civ was already tightly-focused on 1-2 aspects.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

Didn't want to make any of the synergies too tight. If possible, we tried to avoid doubling-down on things if a civ was already tightly-focused on 1-2 aspects.

The Iziko (Zulu UB giving culture on units leveling) in particular was incredibly synergized. Like the unnerfed Greek amphitheater replacement on steroids.

 

[pineappledan]

Same with Babylon etemenanki, Persia's qizilbash and Pairidaeza, or France's SPAD. Sometimes the bonuses just work, they make sense both with the historical realities of that component and with the existing kit. Sometimes it doesn't hang together quite as well.

I'm just glad someone has actually had a chance to playtest the thing, and it's gotten a better review than the old Khopesh.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

Same with Babylon etemenanki, Persia's qizilbash and Pairidaeza, or France's SPAD. Sometimes the bonuses just work, they make sense both with the historical realities of that component and with the existing kit. Sometimes it doesn't hang together quite as well.

I'm just glad someone has actually had a chance to playtest the thing, and it's gotten a better review than the old Khopesh.

anything else that needs a playtest?

 

[pineappledan]

Basically any civ that has a renaissance or later UC is under-tested.
Austria, Morocco, Korea, Netherlands, Spain

 

[Hinin]

Austria, Morocco, Korea, Netherlands, Spain

For Morocco, the UB is quite discrete, but gives a lot of GMerchant points throughout the game. It would be too powerful... if the GM wasn't considered the weakest of the GP. The main use I found for this UC is that is makes a WLTKD focused Morocco quite viable in the mid-to-late game.
The Corsaire also is quite a discreet UC, most notably because the AI doesn't use it for its main purpose, TR destruction, and that Morocco isn't a very warlike civ in general. That said, I once had a war while using the unit, and one interesting use is to allow the quick creation of a fleet by accumulating production when killing or pillaging : it requires to place your main military port at a strategic point to gather the yields, but it's quite nice when it works.
All of that said, Morocco is still considered one of the most powerful civs in the game because of its UI, so I don't think it's a problem the rest of its UCs are less remarkable.

Concerning the Netherlands, I don't want to play it right now, because I consider the civ to be too powerful, even though its UI is weak :

• It's UA is too open to AI-exploits, which usually means a lot of free culture from the get go.
• It's naval UM is to me one of the most overloaded in VP, and so I find it unfair to use it.
• It's currently too easy to create monopolies through trade with this civ, and so the Waag can easily become very powerful.

If I remember well, Milae did a game with Netherlands 4UC here on Deity and won quite easily.

For Austria and Korea, these are indeed not civs that I like to play (even though I very much like to play Russia, another late bloomer, for example), but I will try in the near future to play a game with Korea to see.

 

[Hinin]

AI scouts no longer starting with trailblazer I/II might be enough to try ruins again.

If that's the case, I advise you to try Authority Maya : it's a weird playstyle for sure, but it's surprisingly effective. After rushing ruins, your promoted Holkans (I usually use 3 or 4 since they are cheap and gain xp quickly thanks to Trailblazer I) are fantastic barbarians hunters with the authority combat bonus, and later they are sneaky warriors that maule down archers. Plus, since you have to rush Mathematics, you quickly unlock the Atlatlist, so a rush against a nearby civ with a few spearmen is devastating against their economy or their non-capital cities if they are not defended enough.
Later, your UA provides you the necessary GP to keep the ball rolling and the ability to enhance your religion very early and your UI gives you a lot of science to stay relevant militarily.

My religion combination for now is Forest pantheon/City conquest founder/Faith buying conversion bonus and Cathedral followers/Fealty. You have so much faith early on that you can easily create the rest of your army with it, and use production to strengthen your economy and prepare for later stages of the game.

Finally, on the long run, the Pitz Court makes your units surprisingly powerful, especially if you use a few Woodsman promotions on your core infantry units.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Basically any civ that has a renaissance or later UC is under-tested.
Austria, Morocco, Korea, Netherlands, Spain

I played Spain more than any other civ and i think the Armada is a hell of a powerhouse and a true second power spike for Spain even after losing BP II; a stronger and earlier corvette that could get blitz at level 3 in renaissance era when there are no new defensive buildings is able to make coastal cities fall like sand castles.
I got to try the new bullring just one and it was surprisingly a useful building, building around WLTKD Spain is definitely a strategy that works with an on demand enabler.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

I posted this in the Even more resources mod page too, but I'm playing as Rome and have Poppy as my main resource nearby. Latifundium can't improve Poppy, yet it should improve all plantation resources.

 

[pineappledan]

uh oh. Thanks for pointing that out; I will have to add a fix for mod compatibility.

 

[pineappledan]

v62 posted:

v62:
- Reworked:
    - Arabian Madrasa replaced with Bimaristsan (mainly aesthetic change)
- tweaked/modified:
    - Japan Guilds nerfed significantly. % of total bulb reduced on 2 guilds, only give 1 type of yield now.
    - Aztec Eagle. captured workers have Prisoner of War promotion (-50% work rate), but also get a permanent promotion with +25 work rate
        - Net -25/+25 work rate before/after 50 turns
    - Icon updates for Seir Morb and Klepht
Bug Fixes
    - Code optimizations for 7 units and 4 buildings to help with mid/late game stability
    - Latifundia fix to give modmod compatibility
    - upcoming modmod compatibility fix for Kabuki and Barbican

This doesn't look like a lot, but this is a big mod update. Please test to ensure that everything is working as intended.
This version requires the hotfix that @Recursive posted last week. An official version from G will probably come out soon

 

[MorphBer]

Hello all,

started to play this mod and first of all congratiolations on an awesome piece of work.

Question: Is the difficulty level suposed to be the same as VP? I tried to play games on King as India (tradition) and England (more expanding) both times I was pretty outpaced in both Tech and overran by units at the same time. Oddly I played next to exactly Rome/Egypt/Zulu both times with zulus e got the other partating up Rome both times and me only managing to get half of Egypt (Zulus got the other half) before being overrun by zulus despite have in my eyes a decent defensive force.

Regards

 

[Zarrk]

Thanks for the continius updates, there is a slight problem that it actualy broke the Aztecs. When you create their promotions you use wrong columns name: 'WorkRate' and 'ModSound' instead of 'WorkrateMod and Sound', so no new promotions and for some reasons some reasons the Eagle are missing their Art icon.

One remark about the HueyTeocalli observed in my last game, triggering a Golden Age when one is already active or the same turn it end doesn't give any bonus despite the alert saying so.

 

[pineappledan]

New version to fix the eagle issue posted

 

[Revolutionist_8]

Thanks for the update!

Could you please post a link to "This version requires the hotfix that @Recursive posted last week" ?

 

[pineappledan]

I have been using this one:
https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Community-Patch-DLL/pull/7334#issuecomment-752691626

 

[Revolutionist_8]

Thank you very much!

 

[Legen]

About the Japanese guilds, the civilopedia and building tooltip aren't updated, but I could make a quick test with v62 by reloading a save from the game I had to give up due to CTD. By purchasing an Admiral and getting the three cultural people, the procs seem to be:

• 2% per Monogatari guild as gold
• 1% per Ukiyo-e guild as science
• 0% per Gagaku guild as faith

I actually got 0 faith from the Gagaku guilds, so something went wrong there. Not just on the notification (good addition), the actual faith reserve on the empire had no increase after discounting the GA purchase.

Also, the Gagaku proc notification states "+0 Science" instead of "+0 Faith".

I'll need to start a new game to see if the values are balanced. I don't think the culture and GAP had to be removed, the main issue was on the science scaling, followed by gold. My immediate concern is that the guilds don't seen to have a noticeable contribution towards a cultural victory with what they have left.

 

[pineappledan]

When you were testing it, did you have any tourism at all? Tourism bulbs only work if you actually have tourism.

I'll fix the text. oops.