More Unique Components for Vox Populi

[Extension] 3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

New compatibility version was not reeleased yet so Carolean issue will be resolved in v2. @pineappledan Can you also look into texts in Compatibility Patch if they are ok? There are few of them. I have RL issues and cannot focus on coding and checking for few days, need a pause. Your help in that matter would be priceless. I would release ne compatibility patch after that.
 
Since the Suffet can still cause problems in its current form (since embarking on a lake without a city nearby will prevent the unit from retransforming into a GGeneral), I've been thinking about it a bit... Why not make so the transformation into GAdmiral can only happen when disembarking from a city tile (disembarking elsewhere would only create an embarked GGeneral) ? Obviously, it would weaken the versatility of the unit (which is meant to be its strong point) a bit, but it would prevent problems, and that's the most important.

Also, the current version of the Suffet allows you to complete CStates requesting a GGeneral or GAdmiral quest easily by embarking/disembarking a Suffet. I don't know if there is an easy way to prevent this, but I wanted to point
 
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Why is Khopesh a Spear instead of Swordsman? There's I think 5 Spear UUs now and only 3 Swords while this guy owns a sword. He'd make more sense as a Swordsman replacement I think, also adding more variety.
 
Why is Khopesh a Spear instead of Swordsman? There's I think 5 Spear UUs now and only 3 Swords while this guy owns a sword. He'd make more sense as a Swordsman replacement I think, also adding more variety.

Well, if we follow your logic, the Pictish Warrior should be a Swordsman replacement too, and the Mohawk warrior should be a Warrior replacement (since he uses a wooden club)...
The Kopesh was often made of bronze and is considered an ancestor to the iron sword later made in this part of the world, so it seems logical that it is unlocked at Bronze Working.

I don't say your idea is bad (as it stands now, the Kopesh could be reworked, since his unique promotion may be scrapped), simply that your premise isn't good enough.

Edit : Suggestion for a simple rework of the Kopesh.

Spoiler Suggestion :

Kopesh (replaces Swordman)
Available at Bronze Working (instead of Iron Working)
85 :c5production: Production (15 less)

14 :c5strength: CP (1 less)
Gains the Shock I and Mercy (+50 % CS against units with 50 hp or less) promotions for free.

Doesn't require Iron

The Kopesh wouldn't move from its current tech, but it would cost a bit more, would have a stronger Mercy promotion, the Shock I promotion for free and would be part of the Swordman line instead of the Spearman line (so upgrading him will require Iron, but you'll have LSMan capable of executing weak enemies).
 
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Well, if we follow your logic, the Pictish Warrior should be a Swordsman replacement too, and the Mohawk warrior should be a Warrior replacement (since he uses a wooden club)...
The Kopesh was often made of bronze and is considered an ancestor to the iron sword later made in this part of the world, so it seems logical that it is unlocked at Bronze Working.

I don't say your idea is bad (as it stands now, the Kopesh could be reworked, since his unique promotion may be scrapped), simply that your premise isn't good enough.

Edit : Suggestion for a simple rework of the Kopesh.

Spoiler Suggestion :

Kopesh (replaces Swordman)
Available at Bronze Working (instead of Iron Working)
85 :c5production: Production (15 less)

14 :c5strength: CP (1 less)
Gains the Shock I and Mercy (+50 % CS against units with 50 hp or less) promotions for free.

Doesn't require Iron

I llike that Khopesh suggestion but the Mercy it has now seems like it'd be enough. I don't think it needs to be changed though besides losing that weird -30% until fortify promotion. It's no baguette in my pocket as one would say.
 
I llike that Khopesh suggestion but the Mercy it has now seems like it'd be enough. I don't think it needs to be changed though besides losing that weird -30% until fortify promotion. It's no baguette in my pocket as one would say.

Well, let's compare the Kopesh with the Mohawk Warrior (both being Iron-less versions of the Swordman) :
- the Kopesh cost 15 % less than the Mohawk warrior and is available one tier earlier (two additionnal techs are necessary to unlock the MWarrior)
- the Kopesh has 2 less CP than the MW, which means all his CS bonus will be less effective
- in terms of combat bonus, the MW has a +30 % CS bonus when the combat takes place in a forest/jungle tile, plus the Shock I promotion ; on the other hand, the Kopesh gains +30 % CS when against a unit with 50 hp or less, plus the Shock I promotion => at max effectiveness (+40 % CS), the MW with initial promotions will have 22.4 CP, while the Kopesh will have 19.6 CP

With a +50 % CS Mercy promotion, the Kopesh would also have 22.4 CP at max efficiency... But the MWarrior will have the "Woodsman" promotion, while the Egyptian will have the War Chariot (which isn't relevant anymore by the time the MWarrior arrives). The MW will be much more mobile than the Kopesh, and the Kopesh will be a bit more vulnerable to ranged attacks than other Swordsman...

At the same time, the Mercy promotion isn't terrain dependant, but the MW is more constant in his bonus... It's difficult to make a decision...

... Let's say I agree with you for now, but I think the unit should get something more.
 
Well, let's compare the Kopesh with the Mohawk Warrior (both being Iron-less versions of the Swordman) :
- the Kopesh cost 15 % less than the Mohawk warrior and is available one tier earlier (two additionnal techs are necessary to unlock the MWarrior)
- the Kopesh has 2 less CP than the MW, which means all his CS bonus will be less effective
- in terms of combat bonus, the MW has a +30 % CS bonus when the combat takes place in a forest/jungle tile, plus the Shock I promotion ; on the other hand, the Kopesh gains +30 % CS when against a unit with 50 hp or less, plus the Shock I promotion => at max effectiveness (+40 % CS), the MW with initial promotions will have 22.4 CP, while the Kopesh will have 19.6 CP

With a +50 % CS Mercy promotion, the Kopesh would also have 22.4 CP at max efficiency... But the MWarrior will have the "Woodsman" promotion, while the Egyptian will have the War Chariot (which isn't relevant anymore by the time the MWarrior arrives). The MW will be much more mobile than the Kopesh, and the Kopesh will be a bit more vulnerable to ranged attacks than other Swordsman...

At the same time, the Mercy promotion isn't terrain dependant, but the MW is more constant in his bonus... It's difficult to make a decision...

... Let's say I agree with you for now, but I think the unit should get something more.

Woodsman promotion is from the UA, it doesn't count. If it comes two techs earlier (and both iron working and construction are rarely high priority for me), it shouldn't be like Mohawk in sheer power, especially when if it was as you presented it and he costed less Production and had a promotion no one else can receive.
War Chariot is relevant, it turns into a Skirmisher (unless there's only flat lands, then it's still good to go) and still contributes healthy amounts of Production to your capital. Heavy Skirmisher War Chariots can really speed up everything your capital wants to get up, Gifts of the Pharaoh are very good.

Now that I think about it, Mercy would be more synergetic if Khopesh gave more damage to >50% HP, then you finish them with Chariots/Skirmishers/Heavy Skirmishers so you get your capital better up.
 
Now that I think about it, Mercy would be more synergetic if Khopesh gave more damage to >50% HP, then you finish them with Chariots/Skirmishers/Heavy Skirmishers so you get your capital better up.

Indeed. And you can then use "Gift of the Pharaoh" to spam Kopesh, since they're quite cheap and don't require Iron.
 
Indeed. And you can then use "Gift of the Pharaoh" to spam Kopesh, since they're quite cheap and don't require Iron.

The only problem is the name Mercy doesn't fit anymore, but it can be named anything pretty much, like "Servants of Horus" or something. "Braves of the King" is a good alternative because it's historical from what I can search
 
In addition to what I said about the Suffet, what do you think about all of this, @pineappledan, @adan_eslavo ?

NB : Why not "Gift to the Pharaoh", as a reference to how the Kopesh and the War Chariot would synergize with each other ? (it's semi-serious)
 
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Moving a swordsman replacement to bronze, and then taking away the iron requirement completely removes spearmen from the game. There would be no reason to ever make spearmen for that civ, because khopesh would be categorically better. I'm in favour of keeping the khopesh where it is.
Gift of the pharoah vs gift to the pharoah are too similar in name. It could cause confusion. I think keeping the promotion as ‘mercy’ is fine. It’s short, and matches the effect well. That being said, the braces of the king name change isn’t bad.
Last point: There's an equally valid argument to be made that you are trading synergy for theme if you switch around the bonus. The way it is now, Egypt's UU's both are focused on finishing units off as a theme: You kill for more benefit from chariot and you kill easier with khopesh.

It would be good if @Blue Ghost could weigh in, since he did egypt

I'm cool with carthage as it is now. I played a full game with them and the suffet didn't feel unfair in any way. Making the transition between GG and GA full of weird loopholes is likely to cause a lot of frustration. One thing I will note, however, is that the Suffet can't use canal cities, because it switches back to a GG, and loses most of its GA movement points :crazyeye:
 
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Yeah now that I think about it, there'd be no need to use Spearmen. They'd not even really be better against Horsies because Khopeshes would be getting Shock on top of not-Mercy.
Does the current version work properly with the new VP? So far I'm playing and see no issues besides new unit/building/etc names/descriptions being turned into TXT_whatever, but their features will probably be okay.
 
All of the text for components from both this mod and Enhanced Naval Warfare are missing all their text after updating to the newest VP version; is that just because they need to be updated, or do I have something borked?
 
All of the text for components from both this mod and Enhanced Naval Warfare are missing all their text after updating to the newest VP version; is that just because they need to be updated, or do I have something borked?

I was just going to post the same thing. For some reason all of the text files are messed up on the 5-20 version but they were working fine with 4-30.
 
I was just going to post the same thing. For some reason all of the text files are messed up on the 5-20 version but they were working fine with 4-30.

Alright then, the mods probably just need updated to account for whatever changed in VP. Thanks for saying something!
 
I have a hunch for what the issue is.

The new version of VP has a text entry for AOE_STRIKE_ON_MOVE, which wasn’t there before. The old version of the 4UC text file also has a name for that entry, so they are causing a mod conflict.

Please wait for a new version of 4UC to be released, or go into the !gametext.xml file and delete the entry for the strike on move
 
I have a hunch for what the issue is.

The new version of VP has a text entry for AOE_STRIKE_ON_MOVE, which wasn’t there before. The old version of the 4UC text file also has a name for that entry, so they are causing a mod conflict.

Please wait for a new version of 4UC to be released, or go into the !gametext.xml file and delete the entry for the strike on move

Yes, thanks, deleting these rows from the !gametext.xml file worked for me.

<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_MISC_YOU_UNIT_WAS_DAMAGED_AOE_STRIKE_ON_MOVE">
<Text>Scythe</Text>
</Row>
 
What !gametext.xml? I'm not seeing one even with a file search. Or does it require opening mod file sorcery?
 
NewTexts.xml, in the !GameTexts folder

Around line 2100

There has been a considerable overhaul of game texts, so it might be worth it to simply copy the entire file from the github and overwriting the your current one
 
I haven't gotten much of an opportunity to play with this mod yet but I've scoured over all the additions quite a bit and I'd like to raise a few concerns.

1. India's Mughal Fort: '+1 City Defense for every World Wonder built in the City'. I was surprised when India didn't retain more of it's increased defense capabilities, and am glad to see it has returned in some form. Now this applies for all world wonders in all cities correct? Meaning if you have all your wonders in your capital any city with this building will recieve the additional city strength? Comparatively speaking this ability seems pretty situational. It requires alot more effort (and luck) relative to Greece or Netherlands UB, and due to the limited amount of wonders in regular games this ability is unlikely to scale as high. Would you consider buffing it +2 City Defense for each World Wonder or adding National Wonders to the list? City-exclusive would be interesting as well, and unique.

2. Iroquois Sachem's Council: I'm curious as to what the main goal of this UB was. It looks pretty solid in generating additional resources for the capital and afaik is a unique mechanic in VP. I should tell you I haven't actually played the Iroquois in VP, or even in vanilla for that matter. Part of the reason for that is to me, on paper, the Iroquois look to be one of the weakest Civ's there is, there was, and ever will be. :D Oddly enough though the AI always does pretty damn well with this civ. :lol: Though really, they have a good early military advantage and beyond until you deny them forest and jungle. Outside of that they don't have a clear preferred victory like most of the other civs do. Now despite replacing a diplomatic building, between the additional culture from the building itself, the potential of the promotion, and their other UB, I could maybe see them going for a cultural victory. Overall though, for a national wonder, this looks pretty weak and doesn't do much to push them towards a diplomatic victory. The promotion itself, as far as I know, wouldn't contribute anything and +2 great diplomat points isn't very noticeable in the grand scheme of things. Keep in mind the Iroquois, outside of a little extra food, don't have anything to contribute to the generation of great people, which I would say both culture and diplomacy is/can be pretty reliant on. Thoughts?

3. China: I feel I have to mention this especially because of 2 up there. You thought China was crazy before? You ain't seen nothing yet!

4. Japan/Brazil/Others: I'm not so sure it's such a good idea stacking bonuses like this. These civs, especially Brazil, already have amazing tourism output. This applies to other Civs as well, particularly science ones, and science at least has an easy catch-up mechanic. Most of the civs here got something that would push them towards another victory they otherwise might not go for, or something to make one of the victory they could go for more viable. Some of them however did not.

5. Venice: I'm a little confused here. So they have 2 naval range units in the same tech? I imagine then they upgrade into the same unit. I really can't speak on whether or not you'd want to use both of them until I actually play them, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, you'd be encouraged to go with the Fusta for the potential carry over of the promotion no? The other ship in comparison doesn't have anything going for it other then being stronger at the time. That seems a little off putting.

6. Ottoman Bombard: Essentially a super unit that's very strong for it's time though kinda like above, I'm a little worried about when it upgrades. It would appear it keeps the Sahi Topu promotion so I assume the idea is, for two units only, in exchange for the Sahi Topu promotion you get two other promotions. I generally like mechanics that promote additional interaction but I'm not convinced that's a fair trade. Maybe it is on the bombard, when at it's base it's nearly 50% (?) stronger then cannons and comes one tech earlier, kind of disturbing actually, but beyond that I think one might be tempted to scrap those two units for regular siege units that aren't as prone to being one-shotted due to the loss of health from firing.

7. Babylon Sabum Kabitum: Is the legacy promotion lost on upgrade? Because that's 75% combat strength at level 15. 40% at 10. With that kind of scaling their spearmen will overshadow anything else they might be able to field.
 
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