3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 87

[Enrico Swagolo]

Is Kampong meant to be buildable inside Lakes? Because it is. Creates very good tiles.

 

[Hinin]

Is Kampong meant to be buildable inside Lakes? Because it is. Creates very good tiles.

I pointed out that problem once, and @pineappldan said that he didn't know how to prevent this. It is one of the reasons the Kamong has been nerfed a bit before the release of the modmod.

 

[pineappledan]

Well you can't say it isn't apt. Not intended, but not sure how to prevent it

 

[WhimsicalCotton]

What's going on here?
And another graphical glitch that I've experienced is Spain's hacienda has a red checker pattern skin on it. Any fixes or I'm grounded with this because I'm playing it on my toaster?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

The Indonesian Al Kampone is pretty strong all things considered anyway, and the lakes don't seem like they break it because there's stronger UIs, so it's not a problem. Kiisama is some sort of a fishing platform if the civilopedia is correct, and there's fish in lakes so it's fine. The mention of it being buildable in lakes should just be added in the description so it's not confusing, it doesn't appear to be broken - in fact, it adds more strategies. Makes settling by lakes more attractive.

Also I think the Nilometer has too much. The civ has way much Culture to get even more from this in a considerable amount. Base Culture or Flaxes should go and/or be nerfed I think.

What's going on here?
And another graphical glitch that I've experienced is Spain's hacienda has a red checker pattern skin on it. Any fixes or I'm grounded with this because I'm playing it on my toaster?
View attachment 495946

No such problems for me. Over the years for different mods I remember hearing such stuff occurs if you play too much, have problems with the graphics card/other components or overheat. Check if all is doing well with your computer. I think it's the fault of the toaster.

 

[Hinin]

Also I think the Nilometer has too much. The civ has way much Culture to get even more from this in a considerable amount. Base Culture or Flaxes should go and/or be nerfed I think.

Well, I consider Egypt to be one of the most "snowbally" civilizations in the hands of the AI (maybe not on par with China, the Zulus, Russia or the Iroquois, but definitely a civ whose mere presence can bring misfortune into your game), so a culture nerf to the Nilometer wouldn't be a bad thing, I think. The Burial Tomb, when combined with the Egyptian UA, is already powerful enough.

 

[pineappledan]

So just removing the culture from the base building then?

I updated the text for indonesia for next version

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I think that'd be enough.

Khopesh and Babylonian Spear Guy could also get a bit of a nerf. The power creep is a bit of a problem here, both Babylonian and Egyptian Spear make vanilla Hoplite/Immortal seem silly in comparison. I mean, Hoplite gets just +5% and a conditional +5% CS, not as much as easy to get level 5 Babylonian guy who levels up 50% faster and gets more stuff from level ups, or the variety of Khopesh bonuses. Even the best possible promos of Indonesian Swordsman (+5% attack, +30% defense and +30% attack, +5% defense), an UU that requires Iron and has no bonus CS and is more likely to get almost worthless stuff, hold no candle to the Khopesh abilities or what Babyspear can easily reach.
Power of those two guys needs to be tuned down, their abilities are far too strong. Maybe Khopesh should get +10%/20% CS from each of his abilities, with Babylonian one getting up to 15% CS from Legacy lvl 5 (one gotten every level), at level 5? Easier for AI to handle. Maybe the suggestion is overnerfing them, but they're just Spear UUs and making tribute easier is already good.

 

[infidel88]

Like I wrote in another thread - Khopesh gives malus to units, who need fortify to get rid of it. Except some units (like onager wagon for Sumer, maybe more) can't fortify... Means Khopesh gives malus for whole game :/ Thats OP as hell.

 

[Jarula]

Rome latifundia is too weak 60 turns to build for +2. The fig is cool but too much for too little that's why I manually changed mine to +2 food +2 culture...

 

[pineappledan]

I think this Khopesh debuff is straight up causing more problems than it solves right now. I'm actually in favor of just dropping it entirely, at this point. The unit has 14 CS and does bonus damage vs wounded units. it's fine with just those 2 things. Thoughts, @adan_eslavo and @Blue Ghost?

Otherwise, I adamantly disagree with your opinions re: those two units.

Khopesh has the exact same CS as hoplite, but gives up bonus vs mounted in exchange for its other boosts.
Kibitum by itself has only +1 CS (+9% stronger). Consider that hoplite gets +3 (27%), plus 5% CS unconditional, and another 5% on adjacent unit. Kibitum has to reach level 6 to match that power (3*8%+9%=33%). The only good thing about the Kibitum is all it's cumulative bonus carries forward. Taken on its own it is a rather pathetic UC. My own experience with Kibitum, after the game I played with them, is that they just don't cut the mustard vs. literally any other civ with a UU of their own or a warmongering orientation. As soon as swordsmen entered the game, I got my ass handed to me by Sweden in my game

And yeah, @Jarula, I agreed with you the first time. You might be playing with an older version, the build times were lowered 27 days ago by AE, and that should be in the current (31.2) version. You can confirm on the github.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

You forgot about Quick Study which is a huge selling point, worth far more than up to 10% CS. Babyspear reaches all promotions 50% faster than a regular Spear, and that's worth far more than a silly 2 CS which are lost on upgrade. The game I used it, I've quickly got a bunch of level 5+ guys and every promotion is +XX% CS/other stuff, you don't just get more Legacies. That should also be considered. If you don't use it and then someone invades, sure, it's going to suck, but it's you using it wrong. It's like saying War Chariot sucks because you don't attack anyone to wisely build wonders with it. You just gotta be aggressive. I don't think AI or non-warmongerers will be doing well with it, but if you go Authority Babylon like I did it's a crazy good unit.

 

[pineappledan]

The Quick study is indeed a nice feature. lvl 5 kibitum is still only +16% CS. I really think you are overestimating how good this unit is. Quick study is good, but far less valuable on a melee unit

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

The Quick study is indeed a nice feature. lvl 5 kibitum is still only +16% CS. I really think you are overestimating how good this unit is.

Except when you get a level 5 Kibitum, Hoplite's maybe level 4 and so has one promotion less? I don't think it's OP in an AI/non-warmongerer hands, but this is a severely AI unfriendly unit because while AI is much better at keeping units alive than it used to and I'm often impressed, it will die being just a +1 CS spearman in the end that has to be improved by how you play. Now that I think about it, what would be best is limiting the number of levels affected by legacy while maybe even increasing their power (so let's say +20%/25% or at level 5/6, but more gives nothing) would be better than giving it +50% for being level 15 which only humans can really get.

 

[WoodenThrone]

Question. Is it possible to obtain the current github fixes that were made for v32 by copy-pasting it to the mod without causing serious conflicts with the current version?

 

[pineappledan]

that shouldn't be a problem at all. The other thing you can do is just download the most up to date version off of github, and load that into mod buddy and click "build solution" That would be faster

We are waiting for a new VP version before we release a new version of 4UC. Just don't copy the entire text file; there is a change in there which will need the unreleased version of VP to work. It won't break the game, however, if you do

 

[WoodenThrone]

that shouldn't be a problem at all. The other thing you can do is just download the most up to date version off of github, and load that into mod buddy and click "build solution" That would be faster

We are waiting for a new VP version before we release a new version of 4UC. Just don't copy the entire text file; there is a change in there which will need the unreleased version of VP to work. It won't break the game, however, if you do

Ah alright! I sorta went overboard and copy pasted the entire github to my mod . So some of the fixes I copied needs the new version, I see.

One other question is, there's a weird bug surrounding the Carolean. There's two of them in the Civ selection menu. Does this affect actual gameplay? If so is there a fix?

 

[pineappledan]

Are you playing with Enlightenment Era? There was a mod conflict which caused Carolean to appear twice. I believe it has been resolved, so be sure you are playing with the most up to date versions

 

[WoodenThrone]

Are you playing with Enlightenment Era? There was a mod conflict which caused Carolean to appear twice. I believe it has been resolved, so be sure you are playing with the most up to date versions

Yes I am. The latest version of EE right? Alright then. Thanks so much for the help.

 

[pineappledan]

Make sure you are using the 4UC EE compatibility mod then.