[Extension] 3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

[Nef]

I (IllusVirus) don't mean to bring this up again, however I was playing Greece and I think Proxenos is still not functioning as it should. I don't see it appearing on the city screen anywhere. I was gonna post this on github, but maybe the problem is just on my side and the fact that my income fluctuated almost every turn.

 

[pineappledan]

We were missing a lua trigger, so that was added in the newest version, but I didn't get around to testing it.

I had hoped that would resolve it, but I never went all the way to confirm that, so my closing of your ticket was premature. I'll reopen the bug on github

 

[Nef]

Okay, thank you so much!

 

[pineappledan]

Okay, thank you so much!

If you're trying to play the same game, you'll probably have to give up on it. Even if we managed to fix it, since it is a setting that needed to be changed, it's not likely it will be savegame compatible

 

[Nef]

That's fine, I always end up playing new games without finishing others simply because I keep adding new stuff like modmods or there's a new update. I'm used to it

 

[ridjack]

8 Iron tiles don't exist

Doesn't that depend on the map? 80% sure I've seen 8 iron tiles before.

 

[Mad Madigan]

Yes, strategic resource deposit size if a function of the map script. It can be whatever the script sets it to. The total number of strategic resources is a function of map size and resource map setting, however.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

We made the qila before the imperialism finisher was changed to add more city defence as well. Renaissance base defence is 30. Add walls/castle to that, and that’s 55, or 8.25 per turn. When I designed the building I had forgotten how much of an absolute UNIT the naga malla is. No strategic resource and 30cs, makes for very potent garrisons everywhere. I think qila was overperforming, but I might also add the +1 defence for national wonders as a way to mitigate this nerf.

Ranged Units use their RCS as a Garrison. This would make Great Bombards a good choice as a Garrison, If not for their amazing City destruction potential.

 

[pineappledan]

You only get 2 of those though.

 

[Dweedle123]

Im playing a game with the Inca and the intihuatana isnt functioning as described. I am not getting any of the faith, food, or science bonuses from my scientists.

 

[pineappledan]

Im playing a game with the Inca and the intihuatana isnt functioning as described. I am not getting any of the faith, food, or science bonuses from my scientists.

There's only +1 to specialists on that building. You aren't receiving that bonus?

 

[Dweedle123]

ahhh yes, I didnt notice the period and read it as scientists get the +food and +science per mountain, not the building. (I thought it was entirely OP to be fair).

Working as intended.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I'm not a fan of Siam getting +1 Culture only on Lumbers rather than all forests like in regular VP. It reduces the flexibility of the entire thing (after I fixed the civ to give it a forest bias) and makes Siam start dependant even more - the civ already depends on starting next to the right CSs because in my experience the UA falls off very hard later and in time becomes mostly irrelevant. Some CSs ensure a great start (Cultural >>> Maritime/Religious > the rest > Militaristic in my experience), some don't. Since CS access to strategics also influences your power, it's too much RNG I'd say. Old bonus should come back to alleviate it, if it's too strong for Siam to have that then something might need a reduction.

If it was done to differentiate the civ from Iroquois, I suggest just getting rid of the +1 Culture per forest improvements and increasing Elephant Camp and/or Wat Culture by 1. I think RNG in whether CSs get much strategics, what CSs are in reach, whether they give any quests or you can send an emissary before 40 falls to 0 is enough and you shouldn't wonder how many forests there are as well. If there even are any foresst, because there frequently aren't even after I changed the areas it should start in

 

[pineappledan]

Interesting. Thanks for playing a Siam game, because all their stuff comes so late, I haven’t had the time to try them myself.

The reasons why the culture was put on lumber mill logging camp are as follows:

• The unstacking with Iroquois is neither here nor there, since the ostrog boosts lumber camps too. It did give a reason to make a more clear differentiation between forests and jungles, since the workshop boosts forests, but not jungles. I worried that if the building gave 1// to forests, but only to jungles it could cause confusion
• The elephant camps are logging camps IRL. Boosting the improvement specifically seemed more thematic. It also takes the culture off forest camps, which aren’t being logged.
• As with wats in base VP, the culture to lumber camps is the least impactful thing about this building. I purposefully didn’t want the building to be terrain-dependant.

If the base yields are too small (just 121 more than base workshop), it might be worth looking at it again, and maybe increase it to 7. I’m reluctant to add more culture

With the addition of amphitheater theming bonuses, I had planned to take another look at wats as well, to see if we needed to think of a different bonus, or buff the building further.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Nah it doesn't feel weak at all, the civ seems strong. I suggested +1 Culture to the base thing to reduce RNG, not because anything feels weak. I started with many regular forest camp resources as well, and that's where old Siam had the edge. Anyway Wat is definitely good, tons of Science, comes early and costs less, defends, hinders spies more and has a cherry on top, and Elephant Camp seemed good. It'd probably be the best thing ever had I more luck with Strategics at my allied CSs, especially militaristic ones.

 

[pineappledan]

The militaristic gifts thing was deliberately to make militaristic civs more appealing, and tilt Siam autocracy/Diplo.

 

[StevenV]

Great mod, I always use it since I discovered.

Now, just a feedback about Babylon: I think the instant food bonus from E-temenanki should be decreased. Capital has 40 size in the industrial era, while other cities in the world only 22-24. I did not check, but this may give him some unbearable unhappiness issue.
Oh, and he has only 6 cities. What would happen if he would have a huge empire...

However, I am not so sure about the instant science bonus: Babylon is tech leader with 5-6 tech advantage (as always ) in the industrial over me but has 10-12 tech advantage over the rest of the world. So maybe a small adjustment would be good here also.

I am playing on King.

 

[pineappledan]

The current VP patch HARSHLY punishes big cities. I had a game where I reached 46 with India by early industrial and was forced to quit. That said, given the style of boost that Etemenanki creates, and given the difficulty you were playing at, 40 doesn't seem that outlandish. We expect the next version of VP to iron-out some issues which are currently making 4UC Babylon unplayable.

I have wanted to try a game with Babylon for myself; perhaps this is my call to action. I played them until Medieval one time, and since the gold generation and / in the city are low enough in early game, the wonder seemed fair to me. I did not get to play into Industrial, where empires are amassing 300+ GPT, and the capital is producing 200+/100+, but converting ~200 into 30/20 didn't seem that game-breaking when we first designed it.

 

[StevenV]

The current VP patch HARSHLY punishes big cities. I had a game where I reached 46 with India by early industrial and was forced to quit. That said, given the style of boost that Etemenanki creates, and given the difficulty you were playing at, 40 doesn't seem that outlandish. We expect the next version of VP to iron-out some issues which are currently making 4UC Babylon unplayable.

I have wanted to try a game with Babylon for myself; perhaps this is my call to action. I played them until Medieval one time, and since the gold generation and / in the city are low enough in early game, the wonder seemed fair to me. I did not get to play into Industrial, where empires are amassing 300+ GPT, and the capital is producing 200+/100+, but converting ~200 into 30/20 didn't seem that game-breaking when we first designed it.

Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I saw your posts about India. However, I did not remember well the size of Babylon. Its 49!
Please check it in the screenshot.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

I should post some of my pics of my Babylon game. I didn't get as drastic of a Pop advantage as that AI, or the Unhappiness. I would say it helps if your Capital isn't Coastal, as you get better Tiles to work, most notably more GPIs. I even managed to pick up Knowledge Through Devotion.