A New Dawn Beta Builds

Great to have you back and being productive as always Afforess! Also great that Koshling has joined the party and seems to be adding huge value. Cheers guys. :)
 
Cave to Cosmos ?... I will ;)

Another question beside is it normal that when I got a strike the research percentage lowers to 0% ? Or is it a bug ?
 
can anyone give me a link to stable version of 1.76 build? i tried one aforess linked, and it didn't load all the xmls. i'm getting errors. i linked a pic of xml errors.
 
My BUG option screen looks the very same as Stormwind's.

Also, a huge thank you to Aforess and Koshling for keeping this super-awesome mod alive.

Sadly, I'm also plagued by memory allocation failures, usually 100-200 turns in the game (PerfectWorld2, huge, lots of settings enabled, 14civs). I'm equipped with 4GB RAM so I deemed it not possible, but apparently this still is not enough. I logged memory usage during the last run and the MAF occured soon after memory was running full. Is it expected that this mod occupies more than 2,2GB RAM? The rest was occupied by Win7 etc. at that time, that's why the limit was hit already.
 
Koshling said:
Well, I am first and foremost a C2C modder, but we are converging the DLL aspects which is why I am merging my changes back into AND (and visa versa), so for me it's the C2C perspective that drives this opinion. The entire goods system in C2C is predicated on the in-the-vicinity resource code, and changing something that fundamental would have huge ripple effects there, which is why my gut reaction was negative. It would really need Dancing Hoskuld or Hydromancerx to comment on how it might play with the C2C goods system.

I also don't like (as a general principal) allowing the AI to cheat. Slippery slope. I DO agree with you though that we may need to improve the placement AI if it's not just a reveal issue.
Click to expand...

Sorry I just came in in the middle of the conversation at the request of Koshling. I am not really sure what you guys would be doing to change the city vicinity stuff. Personally I feel weird even trying to tell Afforess what to do now since i am involved in C2C and really anything he changes we as C2C people don't have to include in C2C if we don't want to.

That's really why we did C2C, because at the time Afforess was moving on to more Civ5 stuff. But now that he is back (which i never expected) C2C and AND are now like separate species.

In short the old code is the base of our goods system where buildings give free buildings and those are called "fake goods". Each map resource is linked to a city vicinity building which is called a "fake resource". This system is fundamentally different from how AND makes its city vicinity buildings. And at some point i think our mods are just going to be too different to take code from AND anymore.
 
PacMang said:
Oh and guys... Just go buy more RAM. I doubled my RAM from 4 to 8 just to play this mod. It's cheap as dirt and is by far the easiest piece of a PC to upgrade.
Click to expand...

I am retired and still running XP which wont address more than 3GB. ;)

dudeSDCA said:
1) Yes. Queuing a building doesn't invalidate the cache, so you can add multiple copies of the same buildings (and, consequently, buildings don't go gray when you add them to the queue).

2) This is not just for goodie huts (but the problem is similar). The queues appear to be updated on end turn, not in real-time. So acquiring a goodie hut doesn't give you the new buildings. Similarly, using a missionary to spread a religion doesn't give you access to the new religion's temples. I think I remember this even happening when I connected a resource to my city the first time (that butchering shop didn't show up until the next turn).

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

The reason for 2) is because Koshling speed turns up but did not catch all the events that should refresh the list so us telling him will let him fix the problem and slow game turns slightly ;). I had the resource connection problem too.

On the vicinity stuff. I was under the impression that the AI could see all the resources anyway from the start of game not needing to research any techs to have them shown. This means that the AI just needs to be better place cities doesn't it? AND as Hydro says the vicinity stuff is very important in C2C.
 
DJ We$t said:
Cave to Cosmos ?... I will ;)

Another question beside is it normal that when I got a strike the research percentage lowers to 0% ? Or is it a bug ?
Click to expand...

Not a bug but a design feature. If your pop is on strike you've run out of money basically. And you will need to concentrate on build up your cash flow again. It also means that as long as the strike lasts your city governors will soon start disbanding military units and workers. Also expansion (building new cities) is on hold too.

It will be rough to dig out of your "hole" but it can be done, been there and done that!

JosEPh :)
 
PacMang said:
I am glad you like my idea.

Another thing I have noticed that the AI is pretty bad at times when placing cities. I have seen a few cities that, if only moved one tile left or one tile right, would gain access to 3+ resources. In vanilla BTS this isn't such a big deal, as cities weren't required to have the resource within the cities vicinity in order to build the buildings related to it.

That being said, I don't think that the AI weighs a resource properly for this mod. Might want to see if it is possible to edit the AI to see if you can weigh them differently.

If editing the AI in this way is either not possible or not practical, here I think is an amenable workaround which would solve the problem of the AI being too stupid to ensure that a resource is actually within a city vicinity:

Make each building which requires the presence of a resource be tied to the amount you have rather than vicinity.

Here is an example of how it would work, as I am typing hurriedly so I doubt it is totally clear...

It is the beginning of a game. I have two cities. I was lucky and my first city had stone in the vicinity, and I built a Stoneworker's Hut here before settling the second city. I am now ready for a third city, and get really lucky and place it next to a stone resource AND a marble resource. Now currently I would be able to get 2/3 cities with Stoneworker's Huts... The first and third cities. However, in reality I now have two stones and one marble. 2 + 1 = 3. Of course the way it would factor out is two cities would receive the stone bonus of the Stoneworker's Hut, and the third would only receive the marble bonus. The first round of resources allocated would not be that big of an issue, as the difference between the two types of bonuses are minute...

However, once your borders start expanding and you start gaining more stone/marble/obsidian than you have cities, you start to have a problem... What if I have 3 cities, one with stone, one with marble, and one with obsidian? What if I want all three resources to be diverted to my Capital, the city which would benefit most from the added production? With this addition I have mentioned, I could artificially ensure that the Capital would get all 3 by not building Stoneworker's Huts in the other two cities, thereby forcing the game to send the benefit to the Capital, the only city with the Stoneworker's Hut... But I think an ability to in some way control this would also help... However this to me would be a luxury, not a necessity.

That is how it would work, as the AI is too stupid to properly place cities with the appropriate resources within the city vicinity, something which is mandated by this mod.

As an aside, I don't think the RoM mapscripts give enough priority to the early-game resources. What the hell am I going to do on a continent with 10 oil, 10 coal, 10 bauxite ore, and 10 stone? Why can't it be 5 oil, 5 coal, 5 bauxite, and 25 stone? Truthfully I often edit my own maps after generating them, and apportion the appropriate resources to the appropriate locations, ensuring that all Civs actually have stone... However this is something the mapscript should do, I should not have to do this manually.

Oh and guys... Just go buy more RAM. I doubled my RAM from 4 to 8 just to play this mod. It's cheap as dirt and is by far the easiest piece of a PC to upgrade.
Click to expand...

OK, I have thought about this some more (had my morning cuppa) and think that the number of resources idea is interesting and more importantly it is not a replacement vicinity bonuses as they can both work together.

Various mods have tried to implement such a thing given the limits of Civ IV. Most have taken the form that building b1 used n of resource r1 and m of resource r2 to provide n2 of resource r3 removing access to all r1 and r2 from this city. None have been very successful because they don't take into account what happens when you lose access to resources or allow a city to have access to the excess r1.

Maybe this idea needs to have a thread of its own so brainstorming comments can be collected and then we can figure out what is possible and so on.
 
Koshling said:
Actually there IS code to cope with the queuing (it just invalidates the cache entry for THAT building type), and it seems to be working fine for me (I can't seem to multiply queue the same building). There are problems with tech acquisition and religion founding however, which I have fixed (not pushed to SVN yet though).

I'd appreciate details on the multiple queuing issue since I can't reproduce it - is it specific cities/specific buildings or are you seeing it as a general issue?
Click to expand...

This was REV 452.
Spoiler :
 
Hydromancerx said:
Sorry I just came in in the middle of the conversation at the request of Koshling. I am not really sure what you guys would be doing to change the city vicinity stuff. Personally I feel weird even trying to tell Afforess what to do now since i am involved in C2C and really anything he changes we as C2C people don't have to include in C2C if we don't want to.

That's really why we did C2C, because at the time Afforess was moving on to more Civ5 stuff. But now that he is back (which i never expected) C2C and AND are now like separate species.

In short the old code is the base of our goods system where buildings give free buildings and those are called "fake goods". Each map resource is linked to a city vicinity building which is called a "fake resource". This system is fundamentally different from how AND makes its city vicinity buildings. And at some point i think our mods are just going to be too different to take code from AND anymore.
Click to expand...

I agree - at least with the XML. I'm not sure how far apart our python varies, but you may want to merge my latest civic screen and the RevDCM python assets.

I also think maintaining a shared DLL is mutually beneficial, since it is easy to maintain separate code changes in 1 DLL with # switches.
 
AND Beta 2 is up!

Changes:
  • Storms may appear on any tiles (even with no storms on map)
  • Lots of speed improvements from Koshling
  • All horses units above chariots start with free Commando Promotions
  • Rebalanced several UU and UB's
  • Added missing text keys
  • Fixed Interface issues
  • Removed cure for cancer wonder
 
dudeSDCA said:
This was REV 452.
Spoiler :
Click to expand...

Can you tell me what actions are required to reproduce it. I notice from your image that the duplicates in the queue are not adjacent. Are you finding that when you queue a building it disappears (as it should) but then comes back after queuing other buildings? If so do you see a pattern? I'll keep playing around but its not happening for me currently. It's probably an ordering thing with the actions needed, so if you can be precise about the sequience you took that migth help find it.
 
Koshling said:
Can you tell me what actions are required to reproduce it. I notice from your image that the duplicates in the queue are not adjacent. Are you finding that when you queue a building it disappears (as it should) but then comes back after queuing other buildings? If so do you see a pattern? I'll keep playing around but its not happening for me currently. It's probably an ordering thing with the actions needed, so if you can be precise about the sequience you took that migth help find it.
Click to expand...

Kosh-
If you're not using ver 452, I'm wondering if your cache fixes already fixed it?
What I did was hold CTR (to add things to top of queue), and just clicked around. I found I could add anything, regardless if it was in queue or not (because buildings were not going gray/invalid/disappearing once added).

So this is interesting: I just went back in and added 5 candlemaker shops in a row to the top of the queue. I hurried production to build the first one, <end turn>. Next turn is has 1 Candlemaker built (in building list), has 4 left in the queue, and none listed in the building "pool." I hurried production on the 2nd candlemaker shop, hit end turn, and it removed the 4 candlemakers in the queue and applied my "credit" (from hurrying the 2nd shop) towards the item after the next 4 candlemakers (a library).

I can attach a save game and/or logs if that's helpful too.
 
dudeSDCA said:
Kosh-
If you're not using ver 452, I'm wondering if your cache fixes already fixed it?
What I did was hold CTR (to add things to top of queue), and just clicked around. I found I could add anything, regardless if it was in queue or not (because buildings were not going gray/invalid/disappearing once added).

So this is interesting: I just went back in and added 5 candlemaker shops in a row to the top of the queue. I hurried production to build the first one, <end turn>. Next turn is has 1 Candlemaker built (in building list), has 4 left in the queue, and none listed in the building "pool." I hurried production on the 2nd candlemaker shop, hit end turn, and it removed the 4 candlemakers in the queue and applied my "credit" (from hurrying the 2nd shop) towards the item after the next 4 candlemakers (a library).

I can attach a save game and/or logs if that's helpful too.
Click to expand...

I did make some fixes post-452, but they shouldn't really effect the build queue per se. Can you let me know if the latest build is still doing it for you? If so then a save game would probably help - thanks.
 
Afforess said:
AND Beta 2 is up!

Changes:
  • Storms may appear on any tiles (even with no storms on map)
  • Lots of speed improvements from Koshling
  • All horses units above chariots start with free Commando Promotions
  • Rebalanced several UU and UB's
  • Added missing text keys
  • Fixed Interface issues
  • Removed cure for cancer wonder
Click to expand...

Speed improvements you say? Well, we will just have to test your theory...

http://www.gamefront.com/files/17874775/GEMforAND175with30presetCivsNEW.CivBeyondSwordWBSave

... Oh yes, and test it we will.
 
Afforess said:
AND Beta 2 is up!

Changes:
  • Storms may appear on any tiles (even with no storms on map)
  • Lots of speed improvements from Koshling
  • All horses units above chariots start with free Commando Promotions
  • Rebalanced several UU and UB's
  • Added missing text keys
  • Fixed Interface issues
  • Removed cure for cancer wonder
Click to expand...

Still getting XML Load Error "LoadXML call failed for modules\Custom Leaderheads\Charles_V\Charles_V_Civ4DipolmacyInfos.xml"
 
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