A question to Communists:

[Wob Shop]

Sides, isnt this debate silly? The US and Europe and the developed world are not wholly capitalistic. There's a free market with a varying amount of government involvement and social safety nets. So umm, what country's capitalism are we first going to refer to as the bench mark, and at what time frame that this existed?

Don't you think that perhaps those government interventions are made to preserve capitalism and not to subvert it? Many people in our fabulous ruling class have been both businessmen/women and politicians at some point in their lives.

 

[bathsheba666]

all of the people in America making more money than anyone else in the world and having enough to buy food and luxuries.

Your assertion is palpable bollocks, so your other views are contaminated by association.

 

[JerichoHill]

It's a proven fact that most goods come from the poor countries, that's just an irrelevant detail.

Let me apply your logic on the USSR to capitalism.

"Oh, Pinochet took democracy from Chile, he was a capitalist. Therefore, the entire philosophy *must* be evil."

Saying its a proven fact does not make it so.

However, here's something for you to gnaw on. Agricultural subsidies in first world countries yield to those countries exporting cheap food overseas. That prevents a local food industry from developing in a third world country because they can't produce that cheaply (be it technological inferiority, lack of manpower, etc). Thus, those subsides act as a retardant on third world country development.

If you want to understand how first world policies create poverty in the third world, look no further than food subsidies

 

[JerichoHill]

59% of Americans don't believe in evolution.
You have a huge national debt.
People without health insurance can just go die as far as you're concerned.
You use people who are practically slaves in poorer countries to supply your citizens with the latest fasions.
Funny way of measuring sucess...

If you're going to bash America, first provide backup to your facts. People without health insurance don' die, as far as I am concerned. Don't flame and troll me.
I dont use anyone as a slave.

Every developed country has a national debt. Kinda chronic world problem

Stop trolling.

 

[JerichoHill]

Don't you think that perhaps those government interventions are made to preserve capitalism and not to subvert it? Many people in our fabulous ruling class have been both businessmen/women and politicians at some point in their lives.

I may misinterpret what you're saying, but if you're saying that the government interventions of say "workfare" or "social security" arise out of a maturation of capitalism, I'd be hard pressed to find a fellow economist who would disagree. I surely don't. As we got wealthier as a nation we could afford larger and larger safety nets.

By the way, make sure you attribute the quote

 

[Wob Shop]

I may misinterpret what you're saying, but if you're saying that the government interventions of say "workfare" or "social security" arise out of a maturation of capitalism, I'd be hard pressed to find a fellow economist who would disagree. I surely don't. As we got wealthier as a nation we could afford larger and larger safety nets.

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that to use the state in the Keynsian fashion (or even as "socialist" parties have done when they get elected) is not "communism" or "socialism" or in any way opposed to the interests of capitalism. I'm saying that it is a more sophisticated and intelligent form of capitalism, unlike libertarians and other foes of "big government" who say that state intervention is not capitalistic.

 

[Swedishguy]

The US has the largest gap of income of all citizens in the "advanced" world (yes, broad term).

 

[JerichoHill]

Umm, try to understand that there are in the US libertarians and Libertarians. Try to not confuse us =)

We can debate about which forms of state intervention represent an efficient use of public resources. But you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is little l libertarian who would disagree with the notion that the state has some roles to fulfill.

 

[JerichoHill]

The US has the largest gap of income of all citizens in the "advanced" world (yes, broad term).

The US has a different culture than Europe. Culture determines alot of our governing style differences.

 

[mdwh]

Government Intervention != Socialism

Yes but things like nationalised industries, unions and minimum wage might reasonably be described as socialist ideas. The point is that countries don't have to be 100% capitalist or 100% socialist - of course, no countries lie at one extreme.

 

[mdwh]

The United States is not real capitalism. It's a perversion of capitalism.

So has there been one successful capitalist nation on this planet?

 

[Godwynn]

So has there been one successful capitalist nation on this planet?

AFAIK not with pure capitalism. I would confidently state that those nations that lean capitalist are much more successful than those which lean communist.

 

[Wob Shop]

Umm, try to understand that there are in the US libertarians and Libertarians. Try to not confuse us =)

What distinction is there between the two? I'm an anarchist myself, and we have in the past called ourselves "libertarian socialists" and the social organisation we desire "libertarian communism." Actually anti-capitalists have been using the word far longer than pro-capitalists have. The first to use the word in print was anarchist-communist Joseph Dejacque:
(from wikipedia)
Déjacque was the first to use the term "libertarian" in print in 1857 in a letter criticising Pierre Joseph Proudhon for an attack by the latter on feminism and his support for individual ownership of the product of labor and a market economy, saying: "it is not the product of his or her labor that the worker has a right to, but to the satisfaction of his or her needs, whatever may be their nature."[2]


During the Spanish civil war the CNT (the main anarcho-syndicalist union) were saying things like "long live the libertarian revolution!" -And they opposed capitalism as a matter of course.

The modern meaning of the word as I understand it (pro capitalism, anti-regulation of business) is a far more recent innovation, but sadly it has become the only meaning of the word so when I talk of "libertarian communism" people say I'm contradicting myself.

 

[JerichoHill]

Libertarian more likely refers to the LP, Libetartian Party, and its hodge podge of members.

libertarian more likely refers to individuals who would be considered classically liberal in the European definition.

 

[Tabasco Sauce]

Capitalism is an important stage on the road to Communism. In fact, Marx considered it a pre-requisite for a Communist society to derive from a Capitalist one. I'm not a communist, but it would be nice if some of the misconceptions could be cleared up about it.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

In all honesty:

Communism is like prohibition, it's a good idea but it won't work.

- Will Rogers, 1876 - 1935​

I believe that Communism is indeed a good idea. But it will not owrk as intended but it can atleast work to help people...

It just has yet to do so.

 

[Communisto]

In all honesty:

Communism is like prohibition, it's a good idea but it won't work.

- Will Rogers, 1876 - 1935​

I believe that Communism is indeed a good idea. But it will not owrk as intended but it can atleast work to help people...

It just has yet to do so.

Prohibition is the worst idea ever thought up by rich white women. Communism is a bad idea and is always implemented even worse.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Prohibition is the worst idea ever thought up by rich white women. Communism is a bad idea and is always implemented even worse.

I must disagree.

Communism is not in nature a bad idea and while it has indeed been implement badly so far that does not mean that it wont be implemented in a good way.

 

[Amin001]

Centralization? I think history shows that there will be people that will get hold of the centralized power and take advantage of it.

Human beings are not honey bees or ants.

There has to be some government but not much or you will get tyranny.

Looking at history honesty ,this will be the conclusion.

I know that people who support communism and socialism have good intentions but the road to hell is paved with them.

Oh this is not even mentioning that free market is much more effective, where is the incentive in the market place in a state economy?

 

[Communisto]

I must disagree.

Communism is not in nature a bad idea and while it has indeed been implement badly so far that does not mean that it wont be implemented in a good way.

Well, the odds are stacked against you, insanely, insanely stacked against you.