A question to Communists:
- Thread starter Emperor2
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amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
You're a nitwit if you think personal experience > facts.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
@Nephrite - I take it you didint get the memo that I cast away Communism 
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Wha? When did that happen? It seems fairly sudden. So you won't be leaving the capitalist hell hole that you live in?@Nephrite - I take it you didint get the memo that I cast away Communism
BasketCase
Username sez it all
Christ, this thread has completely gone to hell.
Screw it. Brief reiteration: hierarchies are required and inevitable, anarchy cannot work, and the U.S. remains a much better place to live than any Communist or Socialist nation. The only nations that give close competition to the U.S. in living standards are capitalist nations themselves.
Read back through my previous posts for the reasons why I believe the above.
And finally, may I point out again that I earn a below-average salary at a no-skills job. I am one of those (allegedly) oppressed workers the Communists hope to liberate. And I am a stalwart capitalist.
Screw you guys, I'm goin' home.
Screw it. Brief reiteration: hierarchies are required and inevitable, anarchy cannot work, and the U.S. remains a much better place to live than any Communist or Socialist nation. The only nations that give close competition to the U.S. in living standards are capitalist nations themselves.
Read back through my previous posts for the reasons why I believe the above.
And finally, may I point out again that I earn a below-average salary at a no-skills job. I am one of those (allegedly) oppressed workers the Communists hope to liberate. And I am a stalwart capitalist.
Wob Shop
Chieftain
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The ruling classes love a willing slave. They can do more to you and take more from you if you think they're on your side. So go on, keep upholding their values. They will love you for it and if you're lucky they might say "good work!" to you once in a while.
Here was what the Industrial Workers of the World (a revolutionary anarchist/socialist union) had to say about the sycophant workers of the world:
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
How many do the Wobblies have now? Five members? Three? 
Emperor2
Capitalist Missionary
One thing that communists don't seem to realize is the capitalist drive for efficiency leads to morality - a person is more likely to hire the efficient one, cutting rascism, and he will pay higher wages when the workers demand it because he can't afford to lose them. It doesn't always work out that way, but that is what often happens, and that is the reason why a more capitalist society is going to be more moral then a socialist society, where the corrupted buisness of politics will lead to an efficiency drop that will plauge society at large, while increasing division in the country because of the poor state of society, and creating an open market for ultra-hate groups.
PS:Sorry if the argument is a little disconnected and I don't follow through, It's just ast midnight and I'm going to bed.
PS:Sorry if the argument is a little disconnected and I don't follow through, It's just ast midnight and I'm going to bed.
philippe
FYI, I chase trains.
Yes, go to bed before you make another ignorant and blatantly wrong rant.
If minimum wages weren't in place, laws that forbid discrimination, oh, why do i even bother to refute the claims of some (grumbles)... grow up and see the mess.
Ever wondered why stuff is so cheap? Go connect a few dots with your so called "morale".
I'm sorry if I sound so rash but when anyone says that socialists have a lesser morale...
BasketCase
Username sez it all
You've got it backwards. It's me who does whatever the hell I want at work, and my boss who is the slave.
You see, I wrote most of my posts in this thread while at work. Where most of the other workers are held to a dress code, I wear blue jeans and sneakers. I am exempt from the rules against using company PC's to surf the web. I've used my phone to make personal calls a few times.
And here's the icing on the cake: my co-worker has an X-BOX 360 in his desk. Yes, I mean in his desk at work. And yes, he and I play games on it. At work.
You may begin crying now, sucker.
Edit: I should emphasize that I've had it this good on previous jobs also, not only my current one. My first job in California (software development), the manager showed up every day in shorts, sandals, and a T-shirt; he didn't enforce a dress code on the rest of us; and also he provided free soft drinks and candy bars in the mini-fridge in the back. If you get taken advantage of at work, it's not your boss' fault--it's yours for being a pansy and being afraid to jump out into the unknown and search around for other jobs.
Re-edit: Crap. I got sucked right back in again.
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
You think its funny to insult a dead guy?
Princeps
More bombs than God
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Capitalism doesn't drive for effiency, they drive for PROFIT. The only essential purpose of business is to make a profit. Period.
Sometimes -- often in fact, without the presence of regulation (or with the pro-corporate regulation of the Reagan-Bush gang that you drool over), corporations might sacrifice effiency and quality for the sake of profit.
Total nonsense. Before the massive popular movements demanded regulation and laws from the government, united states had far higher poverty, starvation wages, hundreds of people were murdered and maimed when they were organizing labour. Without minimun wages, the wages will drop under the level of poverty and without workers rights unemployement will be deliberately kept high by the employers, so that labour will be cheaper.
No, in a high intensity democracy with clear information (unplauged by corporate propaganda or money), the population will most likely vote for the statesmen over the corporate shills (such as Reagan)
If outside money is banned from politics, meaning parties will be publically funded (once they're large enough) and the only form of lobbying will be intellectual and arguemental, and the heads of ministeries and other state institutions will be non-political, professionally skilled and not appointed by other ministers alone, and so forth, I believe the result will be much better. I mean, this is just the beginning, there many ways of preventing corruption and ineffiency in public institutions, like collective and collegiate implementation of policies, transparency and openness (conversely corporations are completely secretive and totalitarian structures, like the Soviet government), and abolishment of massive hierarchical structures, decentralization and so forth. These are the ways of making the governemnt responsive to the population.
No, the decent people will not vote for ultrahate groups, whereas business might find radical groups often quite profitable and will facilitate their rise. I mean, how do you think the nazis and the Iranian theocracy rose? They were facilitated by financial groupings in back room deals.
Take fascism, it was the business classes that saw fascism as the new great experiment, a new noble ideal to crush labour organization and the red threat. It was the German industrialists that supported Hitler and his national socialism. Even in the US, it was big business that tried to overthrow the American democracy, and even dubya's grand daddy, Prescott Bush was a fascist and supported the nazis through his rackets.
The Iranian theocrats got their support from the Iranian merchants.
Pinochet got his support from the western imperialists, local and foregin businesses and financial groupings, not from the majority that he violently repressed afterwards.
And while it's true that the population might be attracted to dangerous ideologies when in a sorry state, it's often the powerful and opulent that back totalitarianist movements, because they have the most to gain.
Godwynn
March to the Sea
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This is a very good point. There are many sides to this issue, allow me to examine two of them.
Corporations do strive for profit, I don't think anyone will disagree here. In the effort to achieve rent (long run profit) in the business world it is sink or swim, be efficient or take on more expenses and take the risk of getting ran out of business. Both state controlled businesses and private business strive for efficiency, however I would argue that the private businesses are better at it for the simple fact of competition.
Secondly, it would be incorrect to say that capitalism strives for efficiency. An Econ 101 class will teach everyone that it is beneficial for the monopolist to be inefficient.
JerichoHill will be able to explain that further. Everyone in business strives to produce when Marginal Revenue = Marginal Cost. Monopolies do not attain resource allocative efficiency at this point.
Wob Shop
Chieftain
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You've got it backwards. It's me who does whatever the hell I want at work, and my boss who is the slave.
You see, I wrote most of my posts in this thread while at work. Where most of the other workers are held to a dress code, I wear blue jeans and sneakers. I am exempt from the rules against using company PC's to surf the web. I've used my phone to make personal calls a few times.
And here's the icing on the cake: my co-worker has an X-BOX 360 in his desk. Yes, I mean in his desk at work. And yes, he and I play games on it. At work.
You may begin crying now, sucker.
Edit: I should emphasize that I've had it this good on previous jobs also, not only my current one. My first job in California (software development), the manager showed up every day in shorts, sandals, and a T-shirt; he didn't enforce a dress code on the rest of us; and also he provided free soft drinks and candy bars in the mini-fridge in the back. If you get taken advantage of at work, it's not your boss' fault--it's yours for being a pansy and being afraid to jump out into the unknown and search around for other jobs.
Re-edit: Crap. I got sucked right back in again.
Ever heard of the term "gilded cage?"
Oh, yes. Godwynn has it right. If we have a monopoly, Mr = 1/2D. A monopoly will produce where MR = MC since MR =/= D in a monopoly, resulting in a higher price and less quantity. Therefore we get something called deadweight loss or "efficiency loss", which is lost consumer and producer surplus due to a monopoly market structure.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
That is, quite simply, crap. Capitalism is, at it's core, a denial of morality, a denial of ANY responsibility to other human beings. The fact that capitalism disregards false morale systems is simply because capitalists are utterly amoral creatures, not that they are moraly superior to others.
Yeah, so the trend I see is that these libertarians will go all up in arms about government interference while at the same time, will do absolutely dick when companies do the same. To truly be libertarian is to want to limit both the government and businesses power. Wanting to remove the checks and balances in this system is stupid.
Ecofarm
Deity
Haha. Who told you that?
Where, exacty, in the capitalist doctrine does it say: one must use all accumulated wealth, derrived from efficiency, for evil? Just because someone believes that an accumulation of wealth via private means leads to the efficient use of resources does not mean that said person is the devil. Nor does it mean that all people endeavoring to accumulate wealth are demons. Plenty of rich people have done plenty of great things - things that I doubt the government would have accomplished.
That one would tie a system of economics with moral superiority only displays the depth to which mind-numbing organizations on the extreames of both sides have sunk.
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