A Rebuke

[das]

Does anyone even know when EXACTLY was the Golden Age? For some strange reason I always thought it was sometimes between my first and present incarnations, like RTOR2 or something, but some people here seem to think its more like the stJNES5/stNNES3 era - which would definitely fit as well. Rather confusing if you ask me.

Just look at Neo-confucianists Ming China, progress must be made.

I haven't been researching them thoroughly for nothing; Ming China was generally far more pragmatical and progressive than you seem to suggest, though it did have a time-period of excessive reaction. The NES forum is not a state anyway, so its an inherently flawed analogy.

 

[Symphony D.]

Does anyone even know when EXACTLY was the Golden Age?

I continue denial that there ever was one.

 

[das]

And I fervently deny that the "Dark Ages" existed in real history (that is to say, I don't think they were all that dark). Still, its a common denominator for a certain time period (okay, its a pretty poor example as there are at least two theories as to its chronological limits, but you know what I mean). The "Golden Age" probably also stands for something, but what?

 

[Symphony D.]

And I fervently deny that the "Dark Ages" existed in real history (that is to say, I don't think they were all that dark).

Petrarch's original meaning was a general lack of Latin records, though it can be expanded to mean a general lack of records at all. The "backwards" nature is a more modern invention. In the original regard, it's not wholly inaccurate. Once more, we may lay the blame at the feet of that great purveyor of lies: the media and popular culture.

Still, its a common denominator for a certain time period (okay, its a pretty poor example as there are at least two theories as to its chronological limits, but you know what I mean).

Given those two theories I would state that it's application is entirely relative to the speaker and therefore invalid. A golden age is just anytime that happens to be rather good and bountiful--theoretically if another good time occurs after it, that will be a "golden age" as well; it's not limited to just one occurence.

What Sheep is talking of would seem to be "Classical" and what Iggy is speaking of would seem to be "Transitional" between "Classical" and "Modern", which would be now. This runs into problems since presumably if there is another change it would be "Post-Modern" but it is a generally superior classification scheme in my book.

The "Golden Age" probably also stands for something, but what?

That's a pretty simple one to answer: old-fogey nostalgia for times bygone. It was what today isn't, whatever one might take that to mean. For several that seems to be a positive; for myself at least, it's a negative, which is why I'm mostly dismissive of it being so great and grand.

 

[Sheep]

However, NESing is hardly like that anymore. NESes, due to the nature of the update/stats/orders system, is all about orders. The mod, now, is the main storyteller, but he recieves his ideas from the players through their orders. The game has changed (your NES fitting into the current mode), and if you want a "Never-Ending Story" like the ones of old, you must abolish much of the rules and statistical systems of current NESes.

Indeed, and we are the poorer for it. I am sad to see it like this, and yes my nes is like this too, but those who write stories will actually have an easier time it soon enough.

However I do disagree with the aspect of having to abolish the rules and statistical systems. This in no way prevents people from writing stories, yes it does encourage those who are here for a 'game' but many who join only for this reason neglect to remind themselves of the fact that NES does have the word story to it and to really particpate you must give some form of input into that story.

 

[Sheep]

Sheep, how were the NESes of the "golden age" superior to say, GoobNES, ITNES I and II, or NES2 VI.

As far as I can discern from looking at them, the orders, diplomacy and stories of the newer NESes, along with the updates, were much more indepth and of better quality. ESPECIALLY orders and diplomacy. The NESes of yesteryear seemed to lack a certain degree of complexity or intellectual depth.

I never said the neses were superior, but I do think those who particpated in the golden age actually approached from a much diffrent angle.

However I find it amusing that you mention theses neses which include a plethora of stories, and thus for that reason they were successful. A nes without stories is like eggs without bacon (or ham for you Americans) it just simply doesnt work as well as it could! Yes diplomacy is better, something which I hope I have had a small part in improving along the way. Complexity and intellectual depth wasnt needed back then as stories were more central, and in the end who really cares if you arent a genius like some of us here?? Just so long as you are here to have some fun and help tell a story! Thats why this actually got started in the first place, and it saddens me that we have lost sight of this.

Oh and das I would say that the Golden Age died the day that stNNES3 did. By that time many of the orignal nesers had left, the stories were more focussed on just winning a nes, which is something I still dont quite get, as you cant win a story, and the clique of powermongers began to pollute these forums.

 

[Sheep]

I continue denial that there ever was one.

Of course you would, most latecommers such as yourself cannot look past the fact that perhaps there was a time when nesing was slightly more pure and a little bit more fun then just an exercise of trying to **** your neighbour over because you need to feel powerful in a way to make up for the lack of such power in your own life. Where stories actually meant something other than bonuses and you didnt have to spend 3 hours typing up a set of orders making the poor sod that was generous enough to mod the nes read through them.

Then again those people who send such long orders are usually the ones interested in only winning and actually lack the time to mod a nes of their own, funny that. Perhaps they should try to mod a nes and then maybe they will begin to appreciate the fact that such long orders are in the end more of an annoyance then something to be proud of.

Oh and for everyone who thinks I am attacking Symph D here, I am not, I am attacking each and everyone one of you that this applies to. Think of me as the devil if you must but its ****ing time someone tells what needs to be said instead of pussyfooting around the facts of life.

Finally in saying all of this I do not think personally that the current neses are bad, I just lament the apparent death of the art of telling a story on these forums. Stories are not something that should be left for orders and thus the mod's eyes only. They should be out there for everyone to see. That is what made nesing great in the first place, and that is something we should try not to forget lest nesing becomes just a horde of people who do nothing but diplomacy and orders and thus have no love for the country that they lead and simply are in it only for a supposed victory that truly can never really be achieved, as you dont win a nes. If you want to win at something play civ or another game, not nes.

 

[Symphony D.]

Of course you would, most latecommers such as yourself cannot look past the fact that perhaps there was a time when nesing was slightly more pure and a little bit more fun then just an exercise of trying to **** your neighbour over because you need to feel powerful in a way to make up for the lack of such power in your own life.

No, I'm sorry, that is an attack right there, an ad hominem to be precise. How dare you even presume to know what motivates me or any other player for that matter? What kind of gall do you have to think you know how we think? I'm sorry, but you just crossed a line. I'm going to get something off my chest I've had on it for a long time. I was going to hold my peace but by god this grandstanding is just too much.

Quite frankly, for someone who has demonstrated extreme bias in the moderation of his most recent NES (most particularly toward the United States--yes, Sheep, I do think you're anti-American); who has expressed a public interest in both making it devolve into world war, and has taken steps to do so at every possible opportunity, in addition to giving his players the maximum possible amount of grief; and who has displayed an extreme lack of creativity (where's the "art" in ripping off the Tau for a space NES?) you've quite a pair to be attacking anyone for anything. I haven't modded a NES? I have. It didn't last long--but frankly most of yours haven't either. So I do know what a pain long orders are. And I still maintain they are superior to short two line nothings. So don't even dream to presume that I simply write orders the way I do out of some grandiose "need to win." And quite frankly, I do write more stories than the average player--more, in fact, than you do. So please, sample some of your own medicine.

Don't you dare stick a finger in someone else's face and accuse them of doing the same damn things you're guilty of, because that sort of crap isn't going to fly. You want to make out the past to be great and glorious? Fine. But don't you even think about coming and criticizing me, or anyone else for not agreeing with your "vision" of the past, because that is just intolerable and hypocritical bullfeathers, and I won't stand for it.