A Temporary Beta Build Thread

[webtax]

1.76 is unplayable after 50-70 turns because of zero maintenance of cities.

Here's a possiblefix. In gameinfo/CIV4Civicoptions there are 2 lines:
<iHomeAreaMaintenanceModifier>0</iHomeAreaMaintenanceModifier>
<iOtherAreaMaintenanceModifier>0</iOtherAreaMaintenanceModifier>
The vast majority of civics have 0 as the value. That may fix the problem. I stumbled across this while merging this mod with some other stuff.

found it in CIV4CivicInfos.xml, what do you think should be changed to?

I'm going to guess that the crash problems with the leaders like Dido people have been reporting is a problem with the no shader files for their leaderheads. It would only affect people with older graphics cards. Where the art is defined, its probably pointing to a nonexistant file.

how do you know if its a dido crash? i have had random crashes but i don't know if any related, and after i reload last save 100% of the times so far i can resume
i have an ati 4850

 

[Terradive]

found it in CIV4CivicInfos.xml, what do you think should be changed to?



how do you know if its a dido crash? i have had random crashes but i don't know if any related, and after i reload last save 100% of the times so far i can resume
i have an ati 4850

Play with it. Please post if it works or not.
If it does work post your setting for each civic.

 

[Civthusiast]

Hi I'm new here but have been playing Rise of Mankind and it's expansion A New Dawn for a few years.

I have some moderate intermediate level experience with programming, in particular I am familiar with the three languages used by Civ 4 C++, Python, and XML.

I've also noticed the lack of city maintenance cost problem and have been working on a solution to fix this problem since I started playing the newest release last week, along with a few other issues I consider to be balance problems. I have not done any hard-coding in the DLL as of yet which I suspect is where the actual problem with the maintenance imbalance originates from.

I would concur about the home maintenance modifier being a possible work around for the maintenance problem. I have done some preliminary calculations and I could be wrong but it seems like the problem is simply that the base maintenance rate for cities is set far too low to achieve proper balance. As far as I can tell (without actual access to the source files for 1.76beta), it appears that the base city maintenance rate is set at around 0.5 per city. So in order to bring this up to 1 per city I have increased the modifier (previously mentioned) to 50 from 0. This adds a +50% maintenance increase to each civic and puts it slightly over 1 per city as far as my tests have indicated so far. More testing of this is needed to be certain.

Also, the "otherarea" maintenance modifier refers to over seas cities I believe it may also need to be changed. For some reason many of the civics seemingly have no maintenance values whatsoever in regards to cities. I'm also testing unit support costs at the moment to determine whether values are proper for it as well.

I may post the relevant modded xml files when I have finished the rather tedious process of balance tweaking the civics and a few other areas I might discuss later if anyone is interested.

 

[JosEPh_II]

There will be interest.

JosEPh

 

[webtax]

Play with it. Please post if it works or not.
If it does work post your setting for each civic.

changed it to 50 and 60 but didn't appear to do anything in my current gameplay

i'm new to this so i might have missed somethig tough

 

[Civthusiast]

changed it to 50 and 60 but didn't appear to do anything in my current gameplay

i'm new to this so i might have missed somethig tough

After a day of extensively testing all the "maintenance" values in the civics xml file, I have to report that I was mistaken about the values altering city maintenance.

Looking at the original cvgamecore.dll source from bts, it is clear that they are supposed to, however it appears they are either unused or broken somehow in a new dawn. I've tested both versions 1.75c and 1.76beta5 with numerous changes. These values appear to have no effect on city maintenance, however the changed values are registering on the civics screen.

This leads me to believe the problem is in the cvgamecore.dll, and without access to the source is completely out of reach. I would take a look at it if I had access, but I couldn't guarantee a fix as the code is complex and I'm totally new to modifying this game. It would take time at the very least.

Does anyone here have access to the 1.76beta5 source or will we simply have to wait for Afforess to return?

 

[Civthusiast]

After a day of extensively testing all the "maintenance" values in the civics xml file, I have to report that I was mistaken about the values altering city maintenance.

Looking at the original cvgamecore.dll source from bts, it is clear that they are supposed to, however it appears they are either unused or broken somehow in a new dawn. I've tested both versions 1.75c and 1.76beta5 with numerous changes. These values appear to have no effect on city maintenance, however the changed values are registering on the civics screen.

This leads me to believe the problem is in the cvgamecore.dll, and without access to the source is completely out of reach. I would take a look at it if I had access, but I couldn't guarantee a fix as the code is complex and I'm totally new to modifying this game. It would take time at the very least.

Does anyone here have access to the 1.76beta5 source or will we simply have to wait for Afforess to return?

Scratch that!

I appear to have discovered the reason as to why modifying the maintenance values did not have any effect. The game seems to lock these values in at the beginning of the game. So even though they show as updated on the civics screens the values used in calculation remain the same.

So in order to notice a difference you will have to start a new game. I have not yet tested this with the home area maintenance modifier yet, but I do know that the number of cities and distance maintenance modifiers should work on a fresh a game.

Here is a simple test you can use to verify this as being accurate:

Modify the number of cities maintenance and distance maintenance modifiers to -100 for chiefdom and 100 for despotism. Start a fresh game, build 1 or 2 cities on chiefdom immediately. You should notice there is very little or no maintenance reflected in the city view screen and financial tab. Now switch to despotism, and you should notice a large increase.

The actual values that each civic needs to be set at for proper game balance is an entirely different matter and will take quite a bit of time to work out, as each test will require a fresh game it seems.

I have been doing quite a few balance modifications to my civics xml and may post it once I have finished (which will take some time). There are other aspects which I think are unbalanced, not just the city maintenance.

Also, I have noticed the +gold cost per military unit value acts in a similar manner to the maintenance values (as I have modified it for several civics as well). In general it seems that altering the xml requires a fresh save game.

If anyone finds anything else of use please post the information for those of us working on this.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yes it does require a New start as you discovered. When I read your post before the last one I wondered if you had started a New Game.

As for SVN access PM Afforess and ask for it. He might just give it to you too! He also has an EM link that you can use. You will find it by going to his Profile page.

JosEPh

 

[Civthusiast]

How often does he normally check in here? I've seen that he tends to not post for months sometimes.

Also as far as I can tell homearemaintenancemodifier does nothing to the overall maintenance of cities. I haven't yet tested the overseasmaintenancemodifier yet.

 

[JosEPh_II]

If you PM or EM him from his profile page here on civfanatics, I'm sure he will answer you. Just click on his username on any post he has made. It will take you there.

I've had several PM/EM's with him over the last several weeks.

JosEPh

 

[Aline]

Are there acctualy any plans as to how this mods development will continue?
Since there are apparently still some people who are working on 1.76, even though it looks a bit unorganised atm.

 

[Civthusiast]

Are there acctualy any plans as to how this mods development will continue?
Since there are apparently still some people who are working on 1.76, even though it looks a bit unorganised atm.

I PMed Afforess a few days ago. I let him know I was willing to assist in development of the mod and requested access to the svn. I plan to release my xml patch for new/balanced civics by Wednesday, as I leave for Thanksgiving on that day. It is about 75% complete at the moment.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I hope he gives it to you. As you, Terradive, and sinapus seem to all possess some modding skills.

I unfortunately do not.

JosEPh

 

[Sinapus]

I hope he gives it to you. As you, Terradive, and sinapus seem to all possess some modding skills.

Emphasis on some. I really only tweak xml files.

Okay, I managed to create a module for some of the units that were deleted from 1.75. (The Medic, Entertainer, Motorcycle, Jeep and Humvee.)

Also managed to mod the Warlords modmod so it works in 1.75c. I think. I'll have to see what happens when the AI players get the tech to build the Warlord Chief unit.... and the Warlord Chief(S) unit since I enabled that. Made it expensive so they can't be built too much I hope.

 

[antoca]

I plan to release my xml patch for new/balanced civics

Well, I hope you will solve this zero maintenance problem (and maybe barter problem too), so good luck!

If you PM or EM him from his profile page here on civfanatics, I'm sure he will answer you.

When I pmed you, you didn't answer...

 

[Civthusiast]

Well, I hope you will solve this zero maintenance problem (and maybe barter problem too), so good luck!


When I pmed you, you didn't answer...

When you say Zero maintenance what exactly are you referring to? There is some maintenance already, just not a significant amount (which is then further reduced through civics and buildings). What I've done is to increase that through civic penalties. Finding the right amount to make game play fair is difficult, as it is hard to impose higher maintenance as the game progresses. If too much maintenance is imposed at the start, it becomes impossible to expand.

Barter has been thoroughly reworked in my version, including a -10% gold penalty (to reflect inaccurate methods of transaction). I have rebalanced many of the other starting civics as well, as there seems to be quite a few complaints about them being too strong.

 

[antoca]

I mean civics with the real modificateur -100%. On civics screen, however, it is written not 100%. Monarchy, for example. In such cases every city has 0.25 maintenance, no matter how many cities and how big they are. So gamer's task is very easy: build as many settlers as possible at the start and you won.

I thought you are working on it. Maybe I misunderstood something.

I don't remember the barter problem exactly, so maybe you already solved it. This page http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=430554 can help. As I remember, barter was overpowered. There was big inflation with other civics and also instant consuming of silver and gold.

 

[Civthusiast]

I mean civics with the real modificateur -100%. On civics screen, however, it is written not 100%. Monarchy, for example. In such cases every city has 0.25 maintenance, no matter how many cities and how big they are. So gamer's task is very easy: build as many settlers as possible at the start and you won.

I thought you are working on it. Maybe I misunderstood something.

I don't remember the barter problem exactly, so maybe you already solved it. This page http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=430554 can help. As I remember, barter was overpowered. There was big inflation with other civics and also instant consuming of silver and gold.

Are you using 1.76beta5? Because there is city maintenance in that version, just not alot. I've added more though the distance and number of cities maintenance modifiers in the xml sheet. The .25 is simply the base maintenance for any city.

Yes barter had the ridiculous NO INFLATION attribute. I removed it and replaced it with -30% inflation instead. Inflation is merely the increase in cost of goods over time, barter should not totally remove that factor rather simply lessen it.

I had hoped to input some different inflation options into the game with the new "currency" civic option I've been working on, but I don't know how to get the AI to recognize new categories of civics. It probably will take manipulation of the DLL, so I must wait to implement this until I'm given access to the SVN. Hopefully Afforess drops in at some point.

 

[antoca]

Are you using 1.76beta5? Because there is city maintenance in that version, just not alot. I've added more though the distance and number of cities maintenance modifiers in the xml sheet. The .25 is simply the base maintenance for any city.

Yes, beta5. Did you try to set up monarchy in a game and look city screen? It shows -100% maintenance.
-100%=base maintenance, right? The normal modificateur should be 0%.
I can understand "-100%" with civic chiefdom, that allows to have only 3 cities. But with monarchy you can settle many cities and they all will have 0.25 maintenance (until you build any building that increases maintenence). This problem is described on Bug/suggestions page too.

I can test it again and make a save/screenshots if you need.

Yes barter had the ridiculous NO INFLATION attribute. I removed it and replaced it with -30% inflation instead. Inflation is merely the increase in cost of goods over time, barter should not totally remove that factor rather simply lessen it.

That's good.

 

[JosEPh_II]

<snip>
When I pmed you, you didn't answer...

Sorry, but I've not received any PM from you antoca.

I've only had 1 notification for all of November.

JosEPh