Aaaarmy Training, Sir!

ShiVvV · Sep 11, 2014

Ok. We're moving right along.
7. pigswill (set complete)
8. Quip Up
9. Deonnim on deck
10. shpeka (unavailable 11.09-23.09)

Tech path
I'm glad pigswill put us on math-kinda seems essential. I'm assuming construction next? War vs. Biz appears will be a protracted campaign that will probably require catapults to eliminate him. He appears to have walls in Berlin already.

First, the obvious (to me anyway) is not completing any chops until math.

early turnset ideas
1. Askum grows onto ghmine 1NW; switch to barracks immediately then finish HA.
2. Gondar grows onto pf; postponing HA and starting a worker or a stable. Worker would be to help Addis Ababa tile improvements. Gondar is really the only city that I can see in which we can afford a stable.
3. Lalibela again postpones HA and starts a barracks.
4. Addis Ababa needs 2 farmed floodplains and then the Cu? This is why I kinda favor the worker build in Gondar.

Workers
Worker3 to 1N of Lalibela; roads that tile; then 1NE to pf (road and chop); then 1N to pfh (road/chop).
Worker-prechops tile currently on and road; then moves to tile 2S of capital? or roads towards Frankfurt?
Worker1-roads ghgems tile (he's there already); chops adjacent gf tiles.
Worker2-completes farm/ move 1S farms again/ then mines Cu.

War planning
HA rush is very unfamiliar territory for me. With Bismark at five cities I'd think a minimum of 10 HAs before we can even declare. Chariots will still have some value to us as axe-counters also.

I'm thinking our first priorities will be removing Biz's access to iron. So...a pillaging force of 2 HAs/2 chariots need to be in position at Cologne when we declare.
Hamburg iron would be taken care of with a full-out assault on the city from the tile 1E of Hamburg. This would be our stack. I'm thinking it would need at least one axe and one archer? in the mix.

I'm a bit worried how our production potential will be after we chop all the trees we can get our hands on. War vs Biz seems to be very much an all-or-nothing, 'overwhelming' force type thing as once those trees are gone....shudders.
I guess we're through settling (I keep looking at the fish/stone site). Doesn't look like we'll be running any scientists soon either.
Just wanted to chime in as I haven't posted in a while.

Quip · Sep 11, 2014

Well, I just recently pulled off a successful HA rush on immortal in a random game, so I think I've got a feel for this.

Tech path - I think we limp to construction, but at this point I believe we should not be too worried about it. With our war effort we should be planning to spend the majority of our commerce on troop expenses. We want any Iron working trade we can get though. If our war goes well we may be best suited using a conventional stack to attack the core cities while our HAs can pillage and pick off poorly defended cities of our other rivals.

Cities -
Aksum steals back rice once Lailabela grows to size three. Aksum will have a farm built and will essentially run food and gems while whipping at size 5 or 6. Whips a barracks at size 5 and OF into HA, then starts on stable (I think stable is critical, will explain in war plans). HAs after that.

Gondar gets a farm 1W of the cap's lake and essentially double pop whips at size 4 until happiness gives out.

Lailabela works horses, and two Ghill mines. 5 turn HAs. Will steal back rice when Aksum is all whipped out.

Addis finishd FP farm and then chops the forest 1 SE of city into granary. Mine copper next, then goes back to farming FPs. FP farming just takes so long.

Workers
Worker: Prechop, road, chopping duty.
Worker 1:Farm 1W of lake, chopping duty.
Worker 2: Finishes farm and chops forest 1 SE into granary. Builds copper mine and gets back to farming.
Worker 3 Builds farm 1N of lake, then Road to Hamburg, chopping duty.

Warplans
I think we go for razing Cologne turn 0 of war while sending a larger stack at Hamburg (to arrive turn 1 of war). From my feel from rather lackluster bismarck defenses in the past, I think that should be sufficient.

I think we have a very fair shot of razing Cologne with a force of 6 units. 6 HAs would be ideal, with two HAs with shock to cover the stack. Best case scenario our path to cologne gets Bismarck to move extra defenses into Munich, which leaves Cologne with an 2 archers. That would leave us with 4-5 HAs to pillage/threaten cities while our main stack (8 units? 6 HAs and two chariots? 2 shock HAs to cover stack of course) move towards Hamburg. With one chariot killing Bismarck's archer then disconnecting the iron (or maybe just pillaging the farm and road 1N of iron, skipping the fortified archer), he is without metal 1 turn into the war.

The cool thing is with a sizable force surviving in the north, if we find too much resistance in Hamburg we bypass it and cut off his road network pretty quickly. The only thing is I think we want a 2 stables, not only for shock promos but also a few flanking II units aren't a terrible idea (50% withdraw and opens up Sentry). Since I don't think Bismarck is crazy when it comes to bravery, we're a cinch to deter any wandering spearmen from taking cracks at our stacks if we keep 2 healthy shock HAs on top of each.

As I said earlier we may want to just keep warring after this, we likely have enough land for Domination on our continent. Plus, it's always fun trying to get the game won before the other continent factors into the equation.

Quip · Sep 14, 2014

Played 14 Turns, we're now sitting at turn 90 AKA 625 BC. We have an armies of HAs ready in the field, and I actually took some pictures. Important We're not at war, be sure to declare war before moving our stacks.

Let's look at my favorite so far:

As you can see, we have 6 HAs and a Chariot to take care of Cologne.

Expected defenders:

Feeling very good about razing that city this turn.

However, our play to the desert Iron is more tricky. I think it means delaying the attack on Hamburg, as I stupidly didn't leave a chariot to near Essen/Hamburg. Last time I saw, there was an archer, sword and axe in Hamburg. He can't reinforce Hamburg by the time we could attack, so we could wipe out Hamburg in one turn with the 5 HAs and 2 chariots. BUT, that's a really aggressive play, and if we find Hamburg too prickly we'd have to double back to pillage the iron.

Red path is aggressive, blue is safe. If we took blue and pillage we do get a captured worker for our trouble, and our troops could easily converge in Munich as Bismarck shuffles his units to Hamburg.

Finally, in case you're studying my pictures, here's the Units in the capital.

.

We have 5 more HAs coming in the next 4 turns if Deonnim 2 pop whips Addis Adaba. (Might as well).

Also can't stress enough that need at least 1 (if not 2) Uninjured Shock HAs on top of each stack to keep Bismarck from counter attacking. It's probably overkill but this war will be the make or break stretch. I wish the Deonnim luck. If he can keep the stacks alive until they meet in Berlin or Munich we should set.

Finally, grabbed masonry but then shut off research. Construction Vs. Currency is a good question, but it can wait until we're awash in city capture gold.

Deonnim · Sep 15, 2014

So, I'll grab the save when I get home from work tonight and take a look at the situation to assess what's going on fully. I had been hoping that the war wouldn't start during my turn around, but seeing as I need to get more practice with early rushes, etc this is a good thing. If anyone has any tips or info to give me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

*edit* never mind, I can see that Quip was kind enough to lay everything out for me. Thanks for that, I really do appreciate it. I'll make sure that I cross all my T's and dot my I's with this one

Deonnim · Sep 17, 2014

So my turnset is finished, I stopped after 10 turns only because I was starting to second guess my micro; plus I wasn't sure what to do with one of the German cities we are about to sack and which front to attack on after that.

We've managed to capture 3 German cities and razed another. Dortmund can be attacked this turn and either razed or captured. After that, Bizzy will only have 3 more cities with little to no metal or resistance. There is a GG in Aksum awaiting orders, I wasn't sure what to do with him.

Spoiler Recap :

Quip · Sep 17, 2014

Great job, Deonnim looks like things went pretty well. I feel like we should save Frankfort for last and have that as a rallying spot for our HAs after razing Dortmund and Essen. Now, we could definitely use this period to regrow our economy, but between our 5 bonus commerce resources (Gold, Gems and Silver) and the looming hammer explosion we're going to get out of Bizzy's forests, I think we should continue to press our military. It's 375 BC and only Stonehenge, the Oracle and the Great Wall are done. Combined with everyone being a different religion I think this is one of the games it would pay to go down the low side of the tech tree. No one even has Alpha yet!

Isabella is taunting us with that single archer in Toledo, and a decent sized stack could at the very least pay for itself with a dedicated pillage and razing campaign. We're sort of at an awkward period in that siege is about to hit the field and spearmen are more common, making our stack more vulnerable, but I think at the very least we could get 2-3 cities and some techs out of her if we want to press our new hammer advantage.

Also, City suggestions

Aksum - Probably needs a 2 pop whipped HA next time that's available. No sense keeping a :mad:

around.

Lailabela - We probably spend the 500 years whipping that 5th population point away, but once irrigation comes in we can actually talk about something other than military builds here.

Gondar - Don't think we should be building cottages down there, no rivers and the city could be a promising GP farm w/irrigation, and it has already proved to be a whipping workhorse. Better to invest worker turns in the north before adding infrastructure down here.

Addis - Should start up a library. Will have to wait until irrigation to really get full value out of it's riverside. Probably works green riverside cottage before working the desert gold the worker is mining, but either way it's getting close to allowing its workers to move up north for Chops.

Hamburg - 1 Farmed FP, 1 farmed grassland and getting the cows back means we can run a lot of riverside plains cottages. Chop Chop Chop.

Berlin - If we can get it improved fast enough it may be worthwhile to move our capital here. So much riverside space, good food and we get a bunch of hammers as we clear those nasty forests away and really get our economy going. Chop!

Munich - Chop and whip city until we get irrigation and decent workshops. Just no tiles really worth using yet outside of cows, corn, stone. Sure grassland cottages, but we've got two superior cities for that we just captured. Get that library off the queue and put down a granary, or barracks or stable.

ShiVvV · Sep 17, 2014

Wow, good news from the front! Kudos to Quip (the Whip?) and Deonnim (the Destroyer) for war prep and execution. I honestly didn't feel it would go this well so I'll have to stop being such a pessimistic wuss!

Some thoughts at this point:
1. Not sure we have the umph to take Dortmund just now. We have 4 healthy HAs (2 from Munich, 2 from Hamburg) that can join our Dortmund stack in two turns. Gives us 10 HAs to attack which will probably be facing an additional archer--so five defenders.

2. We need a GGmedic. A lot of possibilities for unit to use but I'd favor the 5/2 HA that is 1N of Lalibela. We could also use the 5/2 HA in Hamburg, the wounded 7/2 HA in Munich or even the chariot in Lalibela. The 7/2 HA in Munich might be best promoted C1+Medic1 however and not used for GG.

3. Attack Essen after Dortmund using the Dortmund forces. The 3 wounded HAs in Munich sit and heal.

4. Set slider to 100% for Alpha(7T)>Myst(2T)>Medi(2T)>Prst(2T). We couldn't run at 100% for 13 turns but we need Monarchy prereqs. Once we have alpha we might can trade for the prereqs.

5. Take peace with Bismark for Monarchy soon as we can. Re-declare once peace deal expires to finish him.

6. Re-settle the northern Fe city-maybe 2E of the iron tile on the coastal riverside tile. Can whip settler from Berlin or Munich.

7. Take the HA build off in AA and finish the barracks. Pump archer garrisons from AA for our captured cities.

8. We may want to consider adopting Judaism soonish--maybe wait till Mono but would help happy cap. We will have Ag soon tho.

9. Espionage. Leave it on Biz? Could make a spy or four to assist capturing his last couple cities. Or we could switch espy target to Cyrus? Izzy? It's awfully nice that Cyrus went Confu btw. Whatever we decide probably best to switch targets. We should have enough on Biz now to do what little we can with the points vs. him before he's gone.

10. Not sure the Gondar cottages are what we really want for this city. Thinking we may be better served chopping what forests are still nearby Gondar and AA, then moving all workers to ex-German lands.

11. Considering that we will have stone--do we have the wiggle room for Pyramids fg build somewhere?

Roster:
shpeka is up but he stated wouldn't be available till after the 23rd. So, Solyaris is next but yena was skipped earlier. So I think yena should be given opportunity to play if he can do so. So hop in if you'd like yena.

UP-either yena or Solyaris If no word from yena in let's say 24hrs then Solyaris.
ON DECK-WalterWolf unless shpeka wants to jump back in after his return :crazyeye:

.

Quip · Sep 17, 2014

We could also go Metal Casting in 10 Turns at 100%. Forges are +3 happy with all our precious metals. Don't know about chasing pyramids here, though police state would sure be fun.

Solyaris · Sep 18, 2014

Ill do my turn this weekend (probably saturday).

ShiVvV · Sep 18, 2014

Sounds good, Soly. This will give shpeka or yena a chance to hop back in once your set is finished. Otherwise we'll just proceed by roster and will be WalterWolf after Soly.

Solyaris · Sep 21, 2014

Think Ill have to pass on my turn. Didnt have any time to do it thought the weekend, and dosnt look good for start of the week either. Sorry about the delay, but since this is entertainment, it dosnt get the prioritation it deserves

Walter_Wolf · Sep 22, 2014

Looks like I'm up.
Will check the save today and post a plan.
I guess it comes down to finish Bismarck off.

cheers

ShiVvV · Sep 22, 2014

np, Soly...too bad though, I know you're a good player and would've liked to hear your thoughts; only so much time however.

Ok,Walt...looks like it's all yours. I'd sure like to bump slider to get alpha before we kill Biz (to get Monarchy for peace). Not sure how much of a risk this poses to us by Biz vassalling to someone before we can eliminate him tho.

Roster:
2. Walter_Wolf--UP
3. Lymond--on deck*unless shpeka or yena indicate they'd like to hop in after Walt. (Both were skipped in first round).

Quip · Sep 22, 2014

I dunno, I'm still for MC as our next tech. Forges mean more hammers and we have all 3 happiness resources. We could also conceivably get good chance on an early GE (I don't think we've run any meaningful GP points yet). It would certainly open up some interesting options if we could bulb machinery. We could go for knights or trebs and maces and keep stirring up trouble.

As for religion, I think we've got to get Montezuma into war with Persia before we do anything that might make him unwilling to work with us diplomatically.

shpeka · Sep 23, 2014

I'm in - as promised. Schedule is a bit tight but 10 turns should be doable. :mischief:

ShiVvV · Sep 23, 2014

OK. For rotation, I think Walter_Wolf should go ahead and play his set since he indicated he was already planning. Then we can proceed with shpeka followed by normal roster beginning with lymond.

Tech Path
For Alpha-Opens up using spies vs. Biz. Current espy base costs slightly over 100EP's for all of Biz's cities. If we keep espionage on Biz, we can steal a lot of the cheap monarchy pre-reqs w/o counting against WFYABTA. Also tech trading of course...although probably not a whole lot we'd be able to trade for at this point. Alpha would also presumably allow peace with Biz for monarchy once we have stolen the pre-reqs.
Against Alpha-Some AI probably researching it now. Other than HBR we probably don't have a whole lot to offer in trade.

For MC-would have a strong trade chip once AI's have Alpha. Would provide comparable happy boost as Monarchy would given our gems/gold/silver with forges. Allows possibility of pursuing machinery bulb with GE (especially if we could manage to get 'Mids...Berlin/Munich?). Then a possible Eng. bulb with GS if we avoid Fishing?
Against MC-no tech from Biz via peace deal. No espionage vs. Biz.

Newbie question--if we do not have Alpha, and Biz does, we can still get techs from him as part of peace deal, correct?

Religion
I say we sit tight with no religion for moment. At least until we can run some civics to utilize it. No sense antagonizing Monty by adopting Judaism just yet.

Quip · Sep 23, 2014

Yeah, we can get techs from him if he has alpha and we don't.

Walter_Wolf · Sep 24, 2014

Sorry for the delay. It was supposed to be a relaxed game, so I hope it's OK I took the relaxed pace

Anyway, here's a plan.

Research: Alpha -> make some trades (IW !!) -> MC? -> Construction?

I agree we should reinforce the Dortmund stack and attack in a few turns. I would even move it a few tiles south for a turn or two to maybe lure some defenders out of the city. Take Essen next. Raze both cities. Btw, how did the Essen defending forces look like when we last (if we did) saw them?

I would use the GG on the chariot for the free promotion which might become usefull sometime.

Build/chop a settler from Berlin for the Fe 2E site as suggested.

Do we want to park a HA near Hittite to be able to take it if an AI eventually weakens the defences?

We have 18 HA. 17 of which in Bismarck lands. I wonder how many more do we need to build if we're going for 1 tile movement catapults soon. I'd keep producing them in the 'stables cities' and build some other infra elsewhere. Swords next.

City by city (as suggested by Quip and ShiVvV mostly)

Aksum – a few more HA. This isn't a dream bureau capital location, so if we decide to move the capital (as suggested), we should probably get another farm or two for Aksum.

Gondar – HA, get another farm 1N1E of the city.

Lalibela – barracks; Axes/Swords.

Adis Abeba – Library; farm 1S1E of the city to be able to irrigate the grass tiles later and probably cottage up the plains.

Hamburg – Library; garrison archers (we don't need barracks for those) cottages Maybe chop some mids fail gold after we get the stone?

Berlin – Settler; Library; cottages (chop fail gold?)

Munich – get a barracks and maybe some swords when we get IW and Iron online.

Try to keep the scout alive.

Quip · Sep 24, 2014

I haven't checked to see if we've captured any more workers besides the first turn but we want to make sure we have 8-10 workers. Otherwise builds/research look good. Maybe put the Berlin forests into a palace. We could also collect a little fail gold if we put some hammers into palace in some place like Munich or Hamburg while waiting for Berlin to get its library up.

shpeka · Sep 25, 2014

Quip said:
I haven't checked to see if we've captured any more workers besides the first turn but we want to make sure we have 8-10 workers. Otherwise builds/research look good. Maybe put the Berlin forests into a palace. We could also collect a little fail gold if we put some hammers into palace in some place like Munich or Hamburg while waiting for Berlin to get its library up.

Palace hammers do not turn into failgold. I learned that the hard way pretty recently.

Too many cottage cities in your plan Walter_Wolf. I would grow cottages only @Berlin (if future capital) and near gold+FP to the south. Farm everything else. We do need more workers for jungle removal after IW.

Go Alpha and we will see what's available - it's either MC or currency for me.

Aaaarmy Training, Sir!

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